In the first piece I explained why it is a fallacy to argue that atheists, because they are mostly materialists, must abide by some form of evolutionary morality. In this piece I'm going to briefly explain how a secular moral system could be set up, and the reasons I feel a secular-based morality is better than a theistic one.
First of all, as I explained before it is a fallacious argument to say that an atheist must abide by some evolutionary morality because all the word atheist means is "without gods." Therefore, any moral system "without gods" would also be logically coherent. Out of the many secular moral systems that have been developed, I believe that the Social Contract is the best one, and for various reasons, which I previously laid out here.
Now, why do I feel secular morality is superior to theistic morality? First of all, the famed Euthyphro Dilemma points out the flaw nicely. It states, "Is what is moral commanded by God because it is moral, or is it moral because it is commanded by God?"
This is essentially asking whether or not something is moral because god says it is moral or is there some source of morality that is above god, and he simply hands these moral codes down to us? From this, it is logical to draw one of two conclusions.
1. Either there is a higher form of morality that is even beyond god and human beings must search it out, or god lets us in on what that ultimate morality is, or,
2. There is no such thing as a fully universal set of laws and all morality is relative. Relative, depending upon location, local customs, time period, experiences of the inhabitants, and of course our biology.
From looking around at the world and seeing the diverse beliefs of various peoples (even of differing or similar religions) it's clear that number two is correct: morality is relative. Now, the next logical step is to figure out what we find repulsive and what we accept as good and decent behavior. This is most easily accomplished through basic principles such as the age old "Do to others as you would have them do to you." (Luke 6:31/NIV), though no one could ever credit christianity with such a principle since it was spoken centuries earlier by the Buddha and even in the time of the Greeks: "Avoid doing what you would blame others for doing." - Thales
Though even before the rise of the Greeks, there is evidence that our evolutionary heritage bestowed upon us an innate morality that was crafted by natural selection for our survival, since we were, and still are, social creatures. Because of this, natural selection would naturally (no pun intended) endow us with a set of social skills, which would include ways of handling moral dilemmas. [1] It has also been shown that a large percentage of our altruistic tendencies are innate and this would explain the universal principle of morality, "Do to others as you would have them do to you", that has been developed over vast distances throughout the world and between diverse cultures.
For example,
"Rushton and colleagues from the University of London gave questionnaires that measured altruistic and aggressive tendencies to 573 twins. [...] The majority of the variance of each scale was due to genetic factors. Specifically the heritability of altruism was 56 percent. Altruism increased with age while aggressiveness decreased. Virtually zero percent of the variance of each trait was due to the common environment such as religious instruction." (emphasis in original) [2]
Studies have also shown that this innate altruism isn't only for those in our close knit groups, unlike what many christian apologists like to claim, such as Scott Hahn and Benjamin Wiker in their book Answering the New Atheism: Dismantling Dawkins' Case Against God, and even christian apologist David Marshall, in his book titled The Truth Behind the New Atheism.
In the January 2008 issue of Discover magazine they relate the following studies:
"For years, lacking evidence to the contrary, most scientists had assumed that altruism is unique to humans. Sure, other primates groom each other and even share food, but this kind of helping could be chalked up to selfish motives - either to benefit close relatives who share their genes or to get an immediate reward. In June, however, scientists from the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology reported the first experimental evidence of spontaneous altruism in chimpanzees, toward both non related chimps and humans.
In one experiment done with semifree-ranging chimps in Uganda, a chimp struggled to open a door locked by a chain. The researchers wanted to see if a second chimp would release the chain to help the first get food. Three-quarters of the time, the chimps in a position to help did just that. 'The crucial thing here is they help without any expectation of being rewarded, because they don't benefit from their helping,' leading researcher Felix Warneken explains.
The pattern showed up in a similar experiment with chimpanzees and humans: When a person with whom they had no prior relationship struggled to reach a stick, the chimps handed it to the person even when it required climbing up to a tall raceway. The chimps helped people just as often as 18-month-old German toddlers did in a similar set up involving a person struggling to reach a pen.
'The main finding is that humans and chimpanzees share altruistic tendencies,' Warneken says. In terms of evolution, he adds, this similarity suggests that the two species' common ancestors has these inclinations before culture developed.
And that tells us something about human nature.'There's a widely held belief that humans are selfish in the beginning and only through socialization do we turn into somewhat altruistic individuals,' Warneken says. This work suggests our nature contains the seeds for both types of behavior.'" [3]
One might then argue that, alright we do have this innate morality, though what would make us follow it? We could simply rebell just as we do many of our other instincts. That is true, though, it seems natural selection has once again stepped in to help out because studies have shown that the "reward pathways" of our brains respond when we cooperate with others and act altruistically. Genetic studies have also shown that dopamine genes are involved as well. It literally makes us "feel good" to cooperate and to help others! [4]
I apologize for getting a little bit off track there. I wanted to dispel some misconceptions about humans' innate morality that are often touted as some kind of argument against them. Because morality is relative no religion and no god could give us some universal standard of morality because of the various religious beliefs about what this god supposedly wants. Even those who supposedly know what this god wants are obviously confused so clearly religion is not the answer to moral dilemmas (different religions, and even different sects of the same religion disagree about morality).
I have shown how theistic morality is relative, just as secular moralities, but now I want to expose a flaw in theistic moralities. This flaw is mainly one of choice and conscience. If a theists' god orders you to go to a town and murder its inhabitants (as the christian god does in Samuel 1:15; or what about child sacrifice as in Exodus 22:29-30 for example) must you obey it? Of course, because it's god's command! And in the bible god often punishes those who fail to follow his commands, no matter what it is, even if it's murder as in the above noted passage in Samuel 1:15. Even Samuel 15:23 says that "Defiance of [god] is sinful as witchcraft" (NEB), so what is a theist to do? It's obvious. Because a theists' god orders the murder of even innocent people, clearly no god gets his morals from another source. Therefore, whatever god says is moral, and theists must follow it as instructed in Samuel 15:23.
However, a secular individual can follow his/her own conscience and their own moral sense and philosophy and do what is truly moral.
Such a morality, I believe, should be along the lines of the Social Contract so as to preserve the freedoms of all people - even the extreme minorities from oppression (does anyone recall the immoral campaign to take away the freedoms of homosexual to marry?).
The propaganda spewed out by apologists about how any place that does not abide by god's laws and is "without gods", or atheistic, will become a bastion of immorality and strife is nothing but complete nonsense. The studies which show that the most secular countries are prospering is a direct and lethal blow against this argument. To quote the sociologist Phil Zuckerman:
"If this often-touted religious theory were correct - that turning away from god is at the root of all societal ills - then we would expect to find the least religious nations on earth to be bastions of crime, poverty and disease and most religious countries to be models of societal health."
Zuckerman continues,
"A comparison of highly irreligious countries with highly religious countries, however, reveals a very different state of affairs. In reality, the most secular countries - those with the highest proportion of atheists and agnostics - are among the most stable, peaceful, free, wealthy, and healthy societies. And the most religious nations - wherein worship of god is in abundance - are among the most unstable, violent, oppressive, poor and destitute." [5]
With the millions of theists throughout history who have clearly defied any sort of rational moral code and have murdered others (please see this refutation for examples) is also clear evidence that even belief in a god does not curb ones' potential immorality.
Because of this, human beings must choose what they feel is right and wrong. These choices are indeed relative, but that in no way makes them less binding, so long as the Social Contract is respected and if not, the people will gather and decide what to do with the defiant individual. Though allow me to stress the point that just because there is not some ultimate source of morality, that does not mean men will all of a sudden disobey all codes of conduct. Again, the most secular societies is proof of this. There are even examples of completely free societies with no laws whatsoever being completely free of crime.
Natural selection crafted humans' innate social instincts which do well to help us relate to one another, though it is obviously not perfect. Our intellect has also given rise to our uses of logic, which is, in my opinion, our best source for morality that we have. As I said before, no moral system is perfect, but what we can do is allow our empathy to shine through and use our reason to figure out the best way to ensure each individuals' freedom from any form of oppression, no matter how small. To me, the Social Contract is the best choice, but again, it's up to you, so long as you avoid infringing upon anothers' natural rights.
I have shown how it is a specious argument to claim that an atheist must follow some evolutionary concept of morality. I have also shown how an atheist is in a better position morally because they need not obey the orders of an oftentimes cruel being (as seen in the bible) and can build a society based upon mutual respect and empathy towards their fellow man (and animals) through their use of reason and humans' innate altruistic tendencies.
1. Did Man Create God? Is Your Spiritual Brain at Peace with Your Thinking Brain?, by David E. Comings, M.D., Hope Press, 2008; 480-481
2. Ibid.; 482
3. The Discover Magazine (Jan. 2008) piece was titled "Chimps Show Altruistic Streak", written by Marina Krakovsky, pg. 63
4. Did Man Create God? Is Your Spiritual Brain at Peace with Your Thinking Brain?, by David E. Comings, M.D., Hope Press, 2008; 483-484
5. 50 Reasons People Give for Believing in a god, by Guy P. Harrison, Prometheus Books, 2008; 296
Update - 2-13-10
It has come to my attention that Christian apologist William Lane Craig has attempted to go around the Euthyphro Dilemma by arguing that god's nature is absolutely good, therefore, everything god orders is necessarily good morally. Huh??? And what basis does Craig have in concluding his god is all good? He presents no evidence whatsoever. However, the evidence we do have about his god comes easily from the bible and the many cruel acts his god commits, as in the examples above. Would Craig dare to somehow argue that the many innocent people put to death by his god is good? Therefore, it is safe to say that god's nature is not 'all good' and cannot be counted upon for moral guidance.
Speaking as a atheist, I really don't understand all your yapping about morality. What do I care? If keeping somebody's rules gets me what I want, fine. If breaking somebody's rules works, that's fine too. I can see how understanding all the finer psychological points in your article might help me manipulate people more effectively, but as for your interest in establishing some kind of secular morality, and claiming it's superior to other moralities, I just don't get it.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comment Mr./Ms. Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteYou might not care about this subject but others might (a few expressed interest at the first part). After all, my blog is about debunking all manor of claims and this is one of them. One of the most common it seems, actually, and I wanted to write something about it. Establishing a secular morality? I don't want to. Besides, there have already been many created as I explained above so there is no need for me to do such a thing.
AA,
ReplyDeleteLook, you got all kinds of contextual and historical errors in your analysis of Biblical morality. You cannot just read the Old Testament and take everything at face value. Are you familiar with the Ancient Near East writing style? Are you familiar with the socital norms back in the ancient times? From what it looks like you have no idea. It looks like you just read teh Bible and made all kinds of assumptions to jive with your beliefs.
The Euthyphro Dilemma:
"Is God's nature good because of the way God happens to be, or is it good because it matches up to some external standard of goodness?"
The second part of this is false. If you mean God's moral character is a contingent property of God, then no. God's moral character is essential to Him, which is why it is part of His nature. It sounds like you are confusing moral ontology, moral semantics and moral epistemology.
"morality is relative. Now, the next logical step is to figure out what we find repulsive and what we accept as good and decent behavior."
This is a contradiction. If morality is relative, then any behavior is acceptable! Morality is objective:
"To say that there are objective moral values is to say that something is right or wrong independently of whether anybody believes it to be so. It is to say, for example, that Nazi anti-Semitism was morally wrong, even though the Nazis who carried out the Holocaust thought that it was good; and it would still be wrong even if the Nazis had won world War Two and succeeded in exterminating or brainwashing everybody who disagreed with them." - Dr. Craig
Thanks for the comment but I read the passages and god did indeed tell Saul to slaughter the Amalekites. How I somehow ‘misread’ that is beyond me. It’s still an example of mass murder as commanded by god. And Saul was even punished for not completely destroying them! This passage is very clear. Arguing that I somehow can’t comprehend the text is a horrible apologetic strategy.
ReplyDeleteAs for morality, you’re wrong again. You say, “The second part of this is false. If you mean God's moral character is a contingent property of God, then no. God's moral character is essential to Him, which is why it is part of His nature. It sounds like you are confusing moral ontology, moral semantics and moral epistemology.”
How is this morality “essential” to god? This is never explained. It’s nothing more than an ad hoc explanation and explains nothing. How is “god’s nature” even determined? This also is never explained and is a horrible argument. Not to mention ad hoc.
Next you say, “This is a contradiction. If morality is relative, then any behavior is acceptable! Morality is objective:
"To say that there are objective moral values is to say that something is right or wrong independently of whether anybody believes it to be so. It is to say, for example, that Nazi anti-Semitism was morally wrong, even though the Nazis who carried out the Holocaust thought that it was good; and it would still be wrong even if the Nazis had won world War Two and succeeded in exterminating or brainwashing everybody who disagreed with them." - Dr. Craig”
As I’ve tried to go to great lengths to show, morality is relative. And in that post I tried to show how we can ground morality...but this morality isn’t fixed but agreed upon by humans.
There are only two ways to gain moral insights: objectively and subjectively.
Objective is defined as,
The view that the objects of the most basic concepts of ethics (which may be supposed to be values, obligations, duties, oughts, rights, or what not) exist, or that facts about them hold, objectively and that similarly worded ethical statements by different persons make the same factual claims (and thus do not concern merely the speaker’s feelings). To say that a fact is objective, or that something has objective existence, is usually to say that its holding or existence is not derivative from its being thought to hold or exist. (emphasis mine) [The Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy, Second Edition, edited by Robert Audi, Cambridge University Press, 2005; 284]
Subjective is defined as,
Pertaining to or characteristic of an individual; personal; individual. [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/subjective - accessed 4-15-11]
Given the fact that objectivism regards things that exist independently from the human mind, this seems to be falsified both philosophically and scientifically (See here). All things depend upon a conscious agent to bring things into existence and that includes moral values. If no human being were alive none of our moral beliefs would exist. Say another species evolved that species very well could have very different morals than us. Even other human societies have differing moral values and so this is also falsified without even bringing up Prime.
Put simply, all morality is relative because all morality comes from individuals, making them subjective. Prove that morality comes from without human beings; that it’s handed down from somewhere and this is falsified, but given the fact that god hasn’t been proven (and even god’s morality is relative anyway, ala the Euthyphro Dilemma) morality is subjective. It comes from human beings. From within, not without.
Paul Copan argues that the evidence indicates that the Canaanites that were killed were combatants and that they were profoundly corrupt. Copen continues and states that, “even if it turns out that noncombatants were directly targeted, the overarching Old Testament narrative is directed toward the salvation of all nations–including the Canaanites.”
ReplyDeleteI) The actions against the Canaanites (Amalekites were Canaanites) was morally just and the evidence indicates that action was only taken towards combatants.
1) The Canaanites were morally corrupt
“There was a profound moral corruption amongst the Canaanites that called out for God’s justice, in keeping with His salvation historical purposes. The divine judgment enacted upon the nation was consistent with God’s oracles against other nation states that had crossed moral thresholds. The Canaanite campaign is also, in a sense, anticipatory of the final judgment where justice will be firmly established on a cosmic scale.” – Paul Copan
God “waited” around four hundred years to give the Canaanite nation a chance to see the error of their ways. Only after the Israelites escaped their enslavement in Egypt was when God decided to punish the nation for their corruption and immorality. Meredith Kline said, “the judgment on the Canaanites is an ‘intrusive phenomenon’ of eschatological ethics into the period of common grace, anticipatory of a final judgment when God finally establishes justice on a cosmic scale.” Can we say with certainty that God stopped judging nations, in that way, with the Canaan nation? We have no way of knowing.
2) The Canaanites were morally culpable.
“God has made available moral ideals and insights through general revelation to Gentile nations such that they are sufficiently accountable. Prophetic warnings as in Amos 1 -2 demonstrate that God can hold other nations responsible for stifling compassion, suppressing their consciences, and carrying out particularly heinous acts. The language used in the New Testament of the Gentile population also confirms this (“disobedient” (Heb. 11:31)–a term indicating a moral awareness of wrongdoing but a refusal to turn from it and also Paul’s affirmation of those outside the Sinai covenant who possess the capacity (through conscience) to distinguish right from wrong (Rom. 2:14–15)).” – Paul Copan
History has shown that civilizations are capable of moral reform. The Canaanites did not deserve mercy because they “stifled compassion, suppressed their conscience and carried out heinous acts.” St. Paul said in Romans that people without divine revelation can still know and be able to differentiate between right and wrong. C.S. Lewis noted, in concurrence with Paul, that many cultures over the years have similar basic moral code; such as, honoring and loving parents, being faithful in marriage, not stealing or murdering et cetera.
3) The preservation of Rahab’s family demonstrated the possibility of amnesty.
“Rahab’s embrace of Yahweh and discovery of salvation exhibited both the compassionate character of Yahweh and His to relent from judgment, whether Canaanite, Ninevite (Jon. 4:2) or those from any “nation” that “turns from its evil” (Jer. 18:7–8). It is Yahweh’s desire that the wicked turn rather than die (Ezek. 18:31–32; 33:11) but once a nation surpasses a point of no moral and spiritual return, God will intervene (as He did even upon Israel and Judah (2 Chron. 36:16; cp. 2 Kings 18:11–12; 1 Chron. 5:23) ).” – Paul Copan
Rahab is a testament to God’s forgiveness and mercy. All that had to be done was for the people of Cannae were to renounce their sins and acknowledge Him as the one true God. Rahab and his family saw the error of their ways and they received the mercy of Yahweh.
4) The Canaanite campaign was not motivated by racial hatred or ethnic superiority.
ReplyDelete“Yahweh repeatedly commands Israel to show concern for strangers and aliens in their midst (for example, Lev. 19:34; Deut. 10:18–19) and throughout the Old Testament this theme is evident in the way enemies of Israel are shown as eventual objects of His salvation and are consequently incorporated into the people of God (Ps 87). Yahweh’s concern for the nations and His continual reminder that the taking of the land is not due to Israel’s intrinsic superiority (“indeed, the Israelites are “a stubborn people” (Deut. 9:4–6)”) hardly supports a Gentile-hating, arrogant ethnocentrism.” – Paul Copan
Ethnic cleansing implies racial hatred. There was no such hatred. Consider Rahab and their family and how they were welcomed into the fold. The Israelites were told that they were not “intrinsically superior”, but that the “wickedness and stubbornness” of the Canaanites lead to their demise. Throughout the Old Testament, Gentiles (non-Israelites) were always encouraged to join the fold.
5) The religious dimension of Israel’s’ campaign cannot be equated with the sanctioning of human sacrifice.
“The OT passages that treat Israel’s motivation for the campaign highlight punishment against idolaters (especially those who have lead Israel astray or committed injustice against her), the total destruction of warriors and the consecration to God of everything that was captured. Further, the OT strongly condemns child sacrifice as the epitome of anti-Yahwist and anti-social behavior. Even to take certain (dubious) readings as demonstrating the act of sacrifice is to forget that not all behavioral examples included in Scripture are good ones (cp. 1 Cor. 10:1–12) and in fact the theology of Judges emphasizes the nadir of Israelite morality and religion.” – Paul Copan
The Hebrew word “herem” means “ban” or “dedication to destruction”. “ban” refers, in the early texts, to the total destruction of warriors. Susan Niditch noted in her study “War and the Hebrew Bible”, “The Dominate voice in the Hebrew Bible condemns child sacrifice as the epitome of anti-Yahwist and anti-social behavior…the dominant voice in the Hebrew Bible treats the “ban” not as human sacrifice in exchange for victory but as just and deserved punishment for idolaters, sinners, and those who lead Israel astray or commit indirect injustice against Israel.”
6) The rhetorical devices common to Ancient Near East (ANE) literature must be taken into account when understanding the passages that talk of obliteration.
“The phrase “all that breathes” is a standard ANE expression of military bravado. It refers to total victory and the crushing defeat over one’s enemies. The accounts made clear that many inhabitants remained in the land and prescriptions against alliances and intermarriage with them actually assumed this.” – Paul Copan
The language of “all that breaths” is an ANE rhetorical device. There are ANE phrases like “crushing defeat” or “utter obliteration”. This is what Golingay ( author of “City and Nation”) calls “monumental hyperbole”. The books of Joshua and Judges make it clear that inhabitants remained in the land.
7) Following the Old Testament scholar Richard Hess, it can be argued that the Canaanites targeted for destruction were the political leaders and their armies rather than the non-combatants.
“The language employed appears to be stereotypical for describing all the inhabitants of a town or region, without forcing the reader to conclude anything further about their ages or even their genders.” – Paul Copan
The phrase “men and women” occurs seven times in the Old Testament. This is not “stereotypical for describing all the inhabitants of a town or region, without predisposing the reader to assume anything further about their ages or even their genders.”
8) Both the language and the archaeological evidence point to Jericho, Ai, and the other targeted cities in Canaan as military forts, lacking civilian populations.
ReplyDelete“The actual battles in Joshua do not mention noncombatants and excavated physical evidence show that, for example, Jericho was a military settlement and therefore all those killed were warriors.” – Paul Copan
“Jericho and Ai were military strongholds guarding the travel routes from the Jordan Valley up to population centers in the hill country. That means that Israel's wars here are directed toward government and military installments. So the mention ‘women’ and ‘young and old’ turns out to be stock ANE language that could be used even if "women" and "young and old" were not living there. The language of ‘all’ (‘men and women’) at Jericho and Ai is, in Hess's words, a ‘stereotypical expression for the destruction of all human life in the fort, presumably composed entirely of combatants.’ The text just does not require that ‘women’ and ‘young and old’ must have been in these cities.” – Paul Copan
9) The methods of Israel’s warfare demonstrate restraint and lack the bloodthirsty fervor of similar ANE annals.
“Many battles were defensive [like the one you described, the Amalekites attacked the traveling Israelites (Exod. 17:8)] and in response to calculated assaults and attempts to lead Israel into immorality. God often prohibited Israel from conquering other neighboring nations.” – Paul Copan
“First, the aftermath of Joshua's victories are featherweight descriptions in comparison to those found in the annals of the major empires of the ANE, whether Hittite and Egyptian (second millennium), Aramaean, Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian, or Greek (first millennium). Unlike Joshua's brief, four-verse description of the treatment of the five kings (10:24?27), the Neo-Assyrian annals of Asshurnasirpal (tenth century) take pleasure in describing the atrocities which gruesomely describe the flaying of live victims, the impaling of others on poles, and the heaping up of bodies for display.” – Paul Copan
10) The Canaanite campaign did not set down a pattern or legitimize similar action for later Israel or even professing Christians.
“The killing of the Canaanites was deliberately limited in scope and restricted to a specific period of time. Neither Deuteronomy nor Joshua implies the campaign as precedent-setting and successive OT leaders did not take it as such. We see do not see Saul, David or the other leaders of Israel and Judah undertaking similar action against Assyria, Babylon, Persia, or the local equivalents of the Canaanites in the Second Temple period. Christians that have sought to justify their military campaigns with the killing of the Canaanites ignore Jesus clear own kingdom teaching (Matt 26:52; John 18:36).” – Paul
Also, “Jesus had informed Pilate, ‘My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would be fighting’ (John 18:36). Again, ‘all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword’ (Matt. 26:52).” – Paul Copan
II) If the evidence was overturned, it can be shown that women and children were explicit targets of the campaign.
1) For the Israelites, the killing of the Canaanites would have been a grim task but in the ANE, warfare was a way of life and a means of survival.
“Combatant and noncombatant would not have been easily distinguished and in combination with the hardness of human hearts (Matt. 19:8) and human moral blunted-ness in the ANE, would have likely rendered such actions considerably less psychologically damaging for the Israelite soldier.” – Paul Copan
In the ANE warfare was a way of life and a means for survival. There were situations (as in any war) where combatants and non-combatants were not always distinguished (or able to be distinguished). Actions such as these were less psychologically damaging due to these factors, the “hardness of hearts” and the human moral bluntness”.
2) The Canaanite campaign must be set within the context of God’s overarching goal to bring to bring blessing and salvation to all the nations, including the Canaanites, through Abraham (Gen. 12:3; 22:17–18; cp. 28:13–14).
ReplyDelete“The killing of the Canaanites is not the norm but a troubling exception, apart of a background of Yahweh’s enemy-loving character and worldwide salvific purposes. While simultaneously punishing a morally wicked people and seeking to establish Israel in the land, God was certainly willing to preserve any who acknowledged his evident lordship over the nations, which was very well known to the Canaanites (Josh. 2:8–11; 9:9–11, 24; cf. Exod. 15:14–17; Deut. 2:25).” – Paul Copan
3) We should expect God’s purposes to be often unclear and even baffling, but not let this overwhelming revelation of God’s trustworthy character.
“We cannot measure God by our own defective standards; after all, humanity is incapable of refereeing God’s actions. Apart from God, we have no transcultural standpoint to assess the moral fitness of a culture, least of all, judge God Himself and His purposes in judgment. We must remember both His “kindness and severity” (Rom. 11:22) and realize God’s unique cosmic authority will seek to correct our profoundly selfish human ways, even in civil contexts. Given the inadequacy of our “cognitive position”, and the recognition that even in human relationships there must be room for trust, the full picture of God’s purposes may not always be available to us.” – Paul Copan
Did not mean to swamp you with information. Hopefully, this will help clarify your understanding of the Bible.
First of all, Copan’s argument that it was only combatants that were slain is so off base I wonder if he’s even read the bible he’s defending. The passage says right there in plain English in 1 Samuel 15:3 to “spare no one; put them all to death, men and woman, children and babes in arms, herds and flocks [...]” (NEB) [emphasis mine]
ReplyDeleteSo you’re wrong about that right off the bat. Second, what were these people “morally” guilty of? Failing to worship the god of Israel? Some Amalekites are said to have killed some Israelites on their way from Egypt, and this could be said to be retribution but again, those women and animals were innocent of this.
Even more, what did all of those innocent babies do to deserve death? Nothing. Copan’s immoral defense of such an atrocity is morally condemnable and heartless. His (and your) defense of this atrocity fails on all counts.
Thanks for your comment, though, it seems that you may be the one who needs to research the bible more.