The Lies, Distortions, Hypocrisy, and Immaturity of David Marshall, et al.

Preface

This is an edit of my earlier post.

Today is February, 2010, and back in July of 2009 I had decided to gather up all the evidence I could of the many smear campaigns and lies that have been told about me on the Amazon.com Customer forums by a few of my detractors. They are as follows: David Marshall, J.R. Fraser, and Bruce Bain (these are the handles they use on the Amazon forums; except for Marshall their actual names cannot be confirmed). Each of these individuals have targeted me from the beginning when I first started posting on the Amazon forums in January of 2008, and for what reasons I do not know. Perhaps anger because someone had so well refuted Marshall's book, The Truth Behind the New Atheism? And in my opinion, it angered them more that someone without much of a formal education did so, which really struck a blow to Marshall's very apparent, inflated, and undeserved ego. Despite my many challenges to Marshall himself and his supporters none have come close to pointing out any errors that they have claimed I've made.

Of course, it is true that I did make a few mistakes in the very first edition of the review, though when I was told about those few errors I went to correct them and they have been fixed for a long time now (over two years at this point). It simply seems to me that these individuals, being unable to point out any current errors of mine, wish to continuously point out my few errors of the past, in order to discredit me to all who will listen to their pathetic whining. These unethical personal attacks can be summed up with one term: character assassination.

Originally, I had posted these lies and smear campaigns as updates to two other posts; A Web of Lies: An Addendum to My Review of The Truth Behind the New Atheism and an earlier post highlighting one of the earlier attempts at debate I had with David Marshall, David Marshall's Attempted Rebuttals.

After a time, I decided to join the two posts as one, which is what you're now reading. I figured it would be more convenient for readers than to have them scroll through the other posts to get to this evidence that must be seen in order to prove that these lies and smears about me are false. I’ve since deleted the evidence from the above posts and will link to this post from this point on.

This post continues with the original introduction I wrote for the original post (with some minor changes of course, which reflect the changes I've made to the original post). The same goes for the original updates, which are copied below. The dates I originally wrote each update is included in italics.

CONTENT WARNING: Throughout the following post I use quite a bit of profanity and that may bother some readers. For a little over three years on the Amazon.com forums (and near the end, it spread to other websites as well) the above named individuals made a concentrated effort to smear me and harm my reputation. They spread outright lies about me, and they used my resulting anger towards them (and the names I called them in return) against me by posting examples of my name calling all over the Amazon.com forums. They tried to smear me by falsely claiming that all I do is insult people during debates but that is clearly not true. Proof is shown below and this proof proves that these three individuals were the ones who initiated this immature behavior. Not only were lies spread about me, but I was continually talked down to and insulted which obviously caused a lot of anger and caused me to lash out on a few occasions. It is also the reason for my apparent anger throughout this post.

The reason I got so angry was because of my childhood. I am an amputee and I was teased a lot and sometimes some very cruel and hurtful things were said to me. While I have grown past these experiences, I no longer dwell on them like I used to as a teenager, seeing other people being picked on, or people calling me names, still arouses much anger due to my past experiences.

Before I get to the damning evidence I'd like to say one more thing. After David Marshall first came upon this post about him and his immature cohorts he responded by trying to - once again, as he always does - harm my reputation by focusing on the presentation of the message rather than the content of the message. Here is an example of Marshall doing exactly this on the blog Debunking Christianity.



This I’ve never understood. If someone is presenting a fact who cares how it is delivered? This is especially true if the person delivering the message has good reason to be angered, and to use strong language. This language does nothing to dampen the facts that are presented. All it does is make very obvious someone’s anger and frustrations about someone or something. The facts are that, despite my strong language, I have been lied about, I have been smeared and insulted, and all this over doing nothing more than giving a book a one-star rating on Amazon.com! If anyone wants to talk of immaturity, I don’t think you have to go any further than the very reason David Marshall began treating me this way to begin with.

Looking back I do regret losing my temper but I cannot express how angry I got (and still am) at my antagonists for their immature behavior and it greatly upsets me. I was also exasperated about how these supposed adults were acting. It was a huge shock and I was not expecting to be treated like this when I began my discussions with them. Please keep this in mind when you read the following post.

Introduction


David Marshall is a christian apologist who has written a variety of apologetic works such as (I'm sure very shitty) The Truth About Jesus and the "Lost Gospels": A Reasoned Look at Thomas, Judas, and the Gnostic Gospels; Why the Jesus Seminar can't find Jesus, and Grandma Marshall Could: A Populist Defense of the Gospels; and finally (a book I know is shitty) The Truth Behind the New Atheism: Responding to the Emerging Challenges to God and Christianity, which was published in September of 2007, which I began to write a rebuttal for in October of 2007, and later on wrote a more extensive and revised rebuttal in 2009.

For any long-time readers I'm sure you're aware of my many discussions [scroll down to the 12/08 update] and I guess I can call them battle of the wills with Marshall because it takes a ton of will power not to just want to reach inside my computer screen, grab him by the head and use my elbow to smatch his orbital socket (a nice martial arts move, by the way...) because of his constant smear campaigns against me and his never ending ridicule and insulting behavior (this includes his sidekick in stupidity J.R. Fraser).

For the year and a half that I've participated at the Amazon.com
customer forums I've been continously insulted and lied about by both David Marshall and J.R. Fraser. Whenever I would get into arguments and "debates" (if you loosely define a 'debate' where one doesn't deal with one's arguments and simply insults the opponent) with them I'd hardly ever get any answers to my arguments whatsoever. In their place they would leave a trail of insults and ridicule a mile long, which I'd constantly bring up in discussions to balance out their attempts at smearing me.

However, many people may not even believe me on this, nor even follow Marshall's, J.R.'s and I's "debates" very closely, so I decided to go through the Amazon forums and take "screenshots" of many of our discussions where he uses ridicule and lies about me instead of dealing with my arguments.

I felt I had to do this because J.R. Fraser wrote a huge smear campaign at the Amazon forums called "What 'Gifted Writer' doesn't want you to know." My pen name on Amazon used to be "The Gifted Writer", which got me a round of insults by both Marshall and J.R. in our earlier discussions, which have long been deleted, where they essentially insult me and said something to the effect of: 'Why are you called The Gifted Writer? Your writing really isn't that gifted' [I'm paraphrasing of course]. The insults started with those two from the very beginning and have never let up and I felt it was long over due that I wrote something that really put those two asses in their place that would expose them.

Well, the evidence below are my attempts to do this. I document everything I say when possible so Marshall cannot come back and claim I'm lying, when it's obvious he's the one who has been lying this entire time....

This just proves the fact that many christians are more immoral than any atheist could ever be when their silly views are threatened by people who are clearly superior.

I've decided to place this post on the side bar so it is easily seen because this needs to be exposed.

I unfortunately don't have a picture of J.R. Fraser, but I did find a few that might just work...




Or this one....



They both suit him so well I'm not sure which one might be more accurate...


The Lies

5-21-09

Boy, it's been quite some time since I first began my discussions with David Marshall. Hard to believe I've actually been able to put up with his lies and distortions for this long now. Well, I was browsing the amazon.com forums' earlier postings and found something Marshall said. It looks to me that I caught him in a lie. Not once but twice. Above (originally located here) Marshall claimed that he did not say the following:

AA reports: "(Marshall) is saying that we should trust what is written in the gospels, because people wrote them, and we're supposed to trust other people."

Arizona is largely desert, no doubt subject to mirages. This appears to be one of them. I defy readers to find any such statement in any of my writings. Some people, of course, are not trustworthy at all – including, unfortunately, Arizona Atheist.

However, above I quoted him briefly from his book and now I find him stating the exact same thing on the amazon.com forums!!! I told you that Marshall lies....

Here is the screenshot:





6-2-09

I wanted to update this post with proof that Marshall's little asshole of a sidekick, J.R. Fraser, has also lied about me. I discussed J.R.'s smear campaign here several months back, but I wanted to highlight his immense dishonesty. His little bitch fit (and lies) was a response to an earlier post I had written on amazon about David Marshall and his lies, which I've copied here.

As you can see from the highlighted portion of J.R.'s post he claims that all I ever do is smear Marshall and never address his arguments. Bullshit!!! I decided to respond to that lie with a more recent post that I wrote proving his lies. I decided to post it here for future reference.

Here is J.R.'s post:



Here is my more recent post proving J.R. to be a bold faced liar. I list several places on the forums where I have addressed Marshall's arguments:


Here is one example of when I have argued with Marshall about the bad arguments in his book. This took place in the comments section of my Amazon.com review of Marshall's book, The Truth Behind the New Atheism. As you can see this particular post was dated December 11th, 2008, while J.R.'s post was written December 17th, 2008 (see the above screenshot).

Here is a snapshot of my debate with Marshall from my review of his book:

Of course, I had argued with Marshall long before this as well, right on David Marshall's Amazon.com blog as it so happens. And this was back in February of 2008! Almost a year before J.R.'s bullshit post was ever written!

Here are screenshots from the above mentioned blog post of Marshall's:




As can be plainly seen by this devastating evidence I have, in fact, debated Marshall and given him my objections - many times! These are even documented on my blog, such an example is this very blog post where I attempted to debate Marshall and point out errors in his book! Besides, even if I had never actually argued with Marshall and given him my objections on the Amazon.com forums, I've answered his arguments and silly claims (and also his smear attempts and lies) right on this very blog! For I don't know how long I'd been asking Marshall to critique my review of his book, which can be found on my blog, but he never bothered to post any comments about it, either here or on amazon. It isn't my damn fault he's a lazy asshole. But, it's a fact that I've presented my case against Marshall several times. This was simply one of J.R.'s many pathetic smear attempts. Not only does this update prove J.R. to be a liar, but a hypocrite as well. J.R. has never argued against any of my arguments in my review of Marshall's book either!

Of course there are other lies, like when Marshall and J.R. state that they did not say "genetic drift" in one of our earlier discussions about Marshall's arguments about evolution in his book, The Truth Behind the New Atheism (see footnote # 6 from chapter 4). Well, this evidence should lend credence to my claim that it is not myself who is lying (as they say) but them. I now have it on record some of their lies so I honestly don't think anyone can trust either of them. Finally I have some proof! I feel very vindicated. Finally. Stick it to those two lying assholes.

Here is one of J.R.'s denials when he refuses to admit to mentioning genetic drift, as well as proof that I had also debated J.R. before his smear campaign was written. This post of J.R.'s was written Dec. 6th, 2008, though he also is once again guilty of what I explain below as well: a smearing and lying campaign about me. Marshall and J.R. like to argue that they supposedly beat me in an earlier debate so badly I had deleted my earlier review on Amazon.com in embarrassment, thus deleting the comments where much of this debate also took place, and hiding it. Though, that is only their distorted view of the picture. I had never deleted a review on Amazon.com before then and was not aware that the comments would also be deleted. The fact of the matter is (just as Marshall could not find a way to answer my arguments against evolution in our discussion in the comments section of my most recent review on Amazon), Marshall nor J.R. were able to answer my arguments back then either, which I mentioned above with the footnote. And yes, I will call people bitches when all they do is lie about me and smear me. All this makes me wonder what excuse they would have used if their comments had remained and were not deleted with the review... As I've proven elsewhere, especially about Richard Dawkins and "child abuse", neither Marshall or J.R. have been able to prove Dawkins wishes to prevent children from learning religion, but despite this they still proclaim victory about those discussions despite their pathetic arguments being demolished by my research. No doubt the same thing would happen about our earlier discussion about evolution.

As you can see in the screenshot below J.R. ridicules me over my lack of experience with the workings of Amazon.com and essentially calls me stupid. This is a good example of the childish behavior I’ve been subjected to by this asshole.


Finally, I'd like to highlight Marshall's and Fraser's hypocrisy. Above you've seen how they had falsely claimed that all I do is smear Marshall and other bullshit, which I've proven false. Well, here are a few screenshots (several more are saved that I haven't posted) of Marshall and J.R. outright lying, distorting the truth, and not even trying to refute my arguments in favor of their cowardly tactics of their smear campaign.




As you can see, here J.R. is repeating the same lie that he tried above and all he does in this post is try to insult my character and my integrity. He doesn't even try to argue against my arguments. Fucking asshole... It's insane that J.R. calls me "mean-spirited" and "hateful" when him and Marshall have been the ones lying about me and smearing and insulting me since the very beginning! J.R. should really look in the mirror when he says things like that because it's clear he's projecting his own issues onto me.

As you can see in the second and third screenshots above David Marshall has also spread this lie around Amazon.com. Above are two instances of this.

This is the kind of shit I've had to put up with, with J.R. especially, which is why I finally lost my temper during one of our discussions and just went off and insulted him, as Marshall shows in a post below, in an attempt to smear me. But as I've shown, I did not respond in this manner first. It was Marshall and J.R. who have always thrown the first insult.





The last three screenshots are Marshall doing nothing but bringing up past nonsense and lying.

It's seems pretty clear to me that instead of dealing with my arguments all these two people want to do is smear me! In each of these (and other) replies Marshall and J.R. simply repeat past things I said to them in frustration or they simply lie.

It's an obvious lie that I haven't refuted Marshall's arguments so I need not go into that. As far as Marshall claiming that I insulted him first, that is a lie. I have proof here.

Yes it is true what Marshall says when he complains that I called him a liar in some of our earliest exchanges, however, the fact of the matter is that he did lie and misrepresent some of his arguments. I demonstrate that here. I was simply telling the truth. Maybe it’s not what Marshall wants to hear and he felt insulted by this but I was not insulting him. Calling me a "fool", uneducated, saying that my "teachers failed [me]", and other putdowns that Marshall has continuously spewed at me the last year and a half are insults!

In one of the above screenshots you see that Marshall has reposted another smear attempt by an amazon.com poster who goes by the name of Bruce Bain. Yes, those things I said were true, but at that point when I said those things I had been bombarded with lies, insults, and smears by both Marshall and J.R., and I just got fed up with their bullshit and went off on them. I call Bain a moron because that's exactly what he is. He has never once even attempted to rebut anything I've ever said and just talks gibberish. Here is an example of what I mean. This is the kind of stuff he always posts!



He's blabbering on about definitions and whatnot and this is all he ever does! He doesn't seem to even have an elementary grasp of the subjects I've discussed and he's sitting at his little computer telling me how wrong I am! I am completely justified in calling him a moron! Even after you jump through all his hoops and define everything he just blabbers on again and says he doesn't accept your definition or wants you to define it again. Above is an example of this. He quotes me as defining evolutionary morality from my previous comment to him and he just asks me to define it again!!! It's absolutely ridiculous to say the least.

Here in a recent screenshot is Bain asking me again to define innate morality, even when it's clear in the above screenshot that I already did!



Marshall likes to bring up something I said to him in one of our discussions about the definition of atheism and communism where he was dismissing me as usual and not really giving me any answers to my objections. When he finally did answer me after much prodding I soundly refuted his argument (he also didn't provide any evidence), and in response he simply told me I was wrong and in frustration (because he never gave any actual arguments for his claims; just bold assertions) I finally said something to the effect of:

When I'm discussing things with Marshall it seems almost as if I'm talking to someone in an institution because his views are so divorced from reality. Then I asked if he had taken his medication because of some crazy thing he said I cannot recall now, just being sarcastic. I did not say that he was literally on drugs; I was making a comparison about how out of touch with reality he is, but ever the opportunist to smear someone who's obviously superior to him, he goes after it, even if it means twisting what I actually said!

It's like telling someone sarcastically that when they shoot a basketball so inaccurately you'd think they were blind! But tell something like this to Marshall and he'd accuse you of literally calling him blind! Stupid, stupid, stupid...

Ironically, here is a comment by Marshall from the blog Pharyngula when Marshall literally accuses someone of being on drugs. Hypocrite much?



All this bullshit and drama that's gone on the last year and a half is draining and frustrating. Their constant lies and distortions about me have just gotten way out of hand, but as I've said before, they obviously cannot rebut my arguments or else they wouldn't have to resort to such childish shit in their attempts to smear and discredit me in the eyes of viewers of the amazon.com discussion forums.

But as I've said here and on the amazon.com forums many times, let my arguments speak for themselves. I'd offered Marshall, J.R., and anyone else, countless opportunities, and given many outright challenges, to refute my arguments and not one person has stepped up. These assholes would rather spew their crap about me than debate me.

As I've been saying for a long time now, Marshall and J.R. are liars, hypocrites, and when their insults are thrown back at them in retaliation they act like the innocent victims. I hope these several screenshots I've provided have smashed those lies they spread to bits.

I've proven they lie; I've proven they're actually the ones who talk down to, and insult their adversaries, and I've proven that they're the ones whose arguments are full of huge holes.

I think this addition to the post is a perfect real-life example of a study by Abraham Franzblau who in 1934 found a negative correlation between acceptance of religious beliefs and three different measures of honesty. As religiosity increased, honesty decreased.

10-16-09

Well, despite my most recent "debate" with David Marshall about christianity and slavery [view the last update] in which after he couldn't refute my argument he simply resorted to insulting me the rest of the discussion, Marshall is at it again with his smear campaign. On my Amazon.com review of Scott Hahn and Benjamin Wiker's Answering the New Atheism he simply repeats the same old smears and lies that I've been dealing with for the last year and a half, and doesn't say one thing in answer to my objections to the book whatsoever! Classic David Marshall...

Notice he makes use of the same smears that I have documented above that he and J.R. have been using throughout most of my participation at the Amazon.com customer forums. Absolutely pathetic.

Here is his pathetic comment on my review:




11-4-09

At the Amazon.com forums J.R. Fraser has discovered my exposing of his lies at his smear campaign against me (his post "What 'Gifted Writer' Doesn't Want You To Know") and has engaged in some of the most blatant lies I've seen yet from him when his bullshit is exposed for all to see. J.R. continously lied to cover up his previous lies, all the while resorting to his usual and pathetic discrediting attempts by bringing up past nonsense about me. To show just how low these liars will go J.R. and Marshall even tried to accuse me of wishing christians dead! J.R. accuses me of wanting a truck to hit and kill him, though as Marshall did earlier with my comment about him needing medication for his delusions, J.R. twists what I said about how he is so idiotic a mere slap wouldn’t be forceful enough to smack some sense into him and so it would require a much stronger force like a truck. But, like many unethical christians do to atheists (like Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins) they completely twist and distort their words and attribute to them views they do not hold. Oddly enough, after I called them on their bold faced lie J.R. even admitted I never said anything like that (that I wanted him dead).

Once again, J.R. is a perfect example of the study by Abraham Franzblau who in 1934 found a negative correlation between acceptance of religious beliefs and three different measures of honesty. As religiosity increased, honesty decreased.

Update - 10-21-10

Well, it seems I’ve gotten rid of J.R. after exposing him as a huge liar in the above Amazon discussion since I haven’t seen him post since that time, though Marshall himself has begun to not only spread the above lie about me wishing my debate “opponent” dead but falsely accusing me of “pornographical posts” (whatever the hell that means) and returning to his over used lie about how I refused to actually post any arguments on the Amazon.com forums - J.R.’s favorite lie about me, and incidentally Marshall’s too it seems - which I’ve handily exposed above. And it seems Marshall has also begun to hallucinate and somehow believes these others who have apparently also given Marshall a run for his money is me and accuses me of being these other people. Sorry, but I think Marshall does indeed need to be put on medication because his delusions are getting stronger...especially with that one about pornographical posts! I have absolutely no clue what the fuck this idiot is talking about. You can view screenshots of these outrageous lies here.

The Immaturity, Insults, and Hypocrisy

I wanted to add a bit of proof of the hypocrisy by David Marshall that is relevant to this post. Earlier I quoted Marshall as saying in his book:

"But unlike Darwin, many on both sides of the controversy seem to go out of their way to insult opponents. A lot of social posturing goes on here in the name of science." [emphasis mine]

Marshall also said:

"The best scientist - or theologian - is not someone who shouts, 'Heresy!' when he hears strange views, but one who listens carefully and responds with reason and evidence. When it comes to ultimate questions, 'openness to evidence' is the definition that counts."

And finally:

"Throughout pages 61 to 63 he explains how if one wants to find out the truth of something, one should listen to experts, but be careful to watch for warning signs of anything that might undermine that trust of some authority such as bias or 'any reaction that looks more like defending territory than seeking truth...'" [emphasis mine]

Despite Marshall's condemnation of such 'insulting' acts by the atheists he mentions, he is being extremely hypocritical because throughout the amazon.com forums Marshall has insulted a number of people once they've shown his arguments to be inaccurate (I was often a target of such name calling). Sometimes his insults rival almost anything most of the "new atheists" have ever said in their books. I offer the following screenshots as proof:









This last picture (below) shows the very first time I posted a comment to David Marshall on the amazon.com forums, asking him to critique my review of his book. He has since deleted that reply to me (no doubt to hide his insulting and rude comments, as he does throughout the amazon forums). Though he deleted his comment I responded to something he said that I perceived as a personal attack and I was not insulting or rude in my reply, but very polite, which is more than I can say for Marshall. Marshall's rudeness started there and never stopped. So if he ever claims I insulted him first or some such thing, that is completely false. If anything my rudeness was in response to his rudeness. I do not take insulting behavior lying down.



I have other screenshots of Marshall's insults, but I don't want to use up any more of my limited space for picture uploads on this crap. This is more than enough evidence to prove my case that David Marshall can be an incredible asshole (and he's still never refuted one argument I've made in my refutation...). Not to mention a bold faced liar.

Most of the time Marshall never offers any evidence for his claims (if he does it's usually an 'argument from authority' or he insults his opponents as I demonstrated above) and it seems that he is defending his theistic territory, rather than attempting to give any actual evidence for his claims. It's very clear that Marshall is in no way "open" to evidence, but he contradictorily seeks to defend his "territory;" the same thing he chides the atheists for (an accusation that is false anyway as I have shown).

5-13-09

I thought I'd add this update about a recent reply I had gotten from Marshall where he insults me yet again, instead of providing one bit of evidence against my position. This screenshot was just taken today:



6-7-09

Here is yet another example of Marshall spewing out his unprovoked insults at me:



8-27-09

I've decided to add just one more instance of David Marshall throwing out unprovoked insults instead of providing one ounce of evidence for his claims (or if he does, I completely refute it as happened during a recent discussion about christianity and slavery).



For reference I also have the entire discussion saved in PDF format in order to prove that his rude remarks were completely unprovoked and how I poked holes in each one of his and J.R. Fraser's arguments. J.R. also resorted to insulting me as well but this post is about Marshall, not his asshole sidekick.

11-9-09

I wanted to update this post with several of the insults and immature behavior of David Marshall's very immature and illogical sidekick, J.R. Fraser. These are just two examples. I have several more saved.






Finally, to end this massive post, I will link to two other more recent smearing and lying campaigns against me:

This one concerns Bruce Bain:

Rant: ON - Another Smear Campaign???

The other, David Marshall:

When You Can't Beat 'Em...Smear 'Em II

The reason I wanted to gather up all this evidence was for one simple reason. Prove that Marshall's, Frasers', and Bain's lies, smears, and especially insults are not isolated incidents, but are standard modes of behavior for them. As I've admitted, yes, I have lost my temper on two occasions with these assholes, though I have shown how these immature people act like this almost all of the time, and my hostile responses were because of their disrespectful, dishonest and unnecessary attitudes and behavior. I am not proud of this behavior and I have apologized to the Amazon.com community for those actions and have attempted to delete all of my offending posts because I know I was wrong in responding as I did.

I am attempting to demonstrate a pattern of behavior on their part and expose their immense deceit in claiming I am to blame. Nonsense! That accusation is nothing but lies, and bullshit. They are the ones who started with this behavior towards myself, not to mention many others, while my reactions to this behavior were isolated incidents. Someone can only take so much crap from someone until they snap, and unfortunately I snapped and verbally assaulted these individuals and took it to a level I should not have. But I've proven with the above evidence that these individuals insult those they disagree with on a constant basis, while, as you may have noticed they had to bring up the exact same examples over and over again because I don't normally respond that way to people, even though they tried many times to lie and claim I did. Only when I got pushed as far as I did by their immature and despicable attitudes and behaviors.

This post should put all these liars and fools in their place and finally expose them for what they are.

Update - 5-4-10

I just visited David Marshall's Amazon.com Blog and found something interesting. He has deleted nearly all of his posts about me! I wonder why...

Here is a screen shot taken today that clearly shows that he has deleted many older posts. Most of them having to do with me and his other critics. Despite my having screenshots of older blog posts the picture below shows that only posts dated from July 28, 2008 to June 25, 2009 are available despite my having pictures above of my replies on his blog from February of 2008!

So the question remains. Why did Marshall delete all of these older posts? Possibly to hide the fact that I had tried to debate him and answer his arguments unlike what he and J.R. falsely claim? Or perhaps he just felt they weren't necessary any more since myself and most of his critics have long since given up trying to discuss anything with him since he has proven himself to be a dishonorable and dishonest individual who no one in their right mind would want to make an attempt at debating him. Either way, I have the proof on my blog for as long as my blog remains and that's all the proof I need of his dishonesty and his unethical behavior.

Update - 5-13-10

It seems that Marshall has finally lost it. He has replied on Amazon.com where a previous comment of his was so rude it was deleted by Amazon. In it he actually tries to accuse me of projection and that the links to my review of his book that I've posted in various places on the internet constitute a smear campaign against him!!! Say what?!


Perhaps Marshall is the one who needs to consult an encyclopedia:

"A smear campaign, smear tactic or simply smear is a metaphor for activity that can harm an individual or group's reputation by conflation with a stigmatized group. Sometimes smear is used more generally to include any reputation-damaging activity, including such colloquialisms as mud slinging." (accessed 5-13-10)

A review that examines a person's arguments, and attempts to do so fairly, is not any form of a smear. If that were the case all of Marshall's publications and Amazon.com book reviews could also be considered smears! At least I tried to represent his positions accurately (and since I have fixed those few errors in the first draft no one has complained about any form of misrepresentation of Marshall's arguments), unlike what Marshall did with Richard Dawkins and even Richard Carrier. Even after his errors about Dawkins and Carrier were clearly pointed out to him he refused to admit and correct his errors. That's yet another form of hypocrisy from Marshall.

And he also helped me out by proving my point for me about his smears against me. In his very reply where he is accusing me of a smear campaign he actually claims I erased things "more than once" after he supposedly pointed out my errors. Of course that is a complete lie. As I showed above, there are several places (that I was able to track down anyway) where I've debated and tried to discuss things with Marshall that are still viewable. The only time early debates have disappeared was when I deleted my very first Amazon.com review as mentioned above. And Marshall is once again being a hypocrite because he has deleted several of my comments and arguments against his book on his blog. The lies and hypocrisy never stop with this guy...

I also wanted to add that it's possible that Marshall did not actually delete his Amazon blog posts, but instead hid them from public view. I clicked on a link in an older post on my blog to an older post on Marshall's blog and it was available, though not available if you went to find it at the Amazon blog itself. Either way, Marshall has still hidden these old posts in order to hide his lies.

Update - 6-6-10

I was recently in another attempted discussion with Marshall over Communism and atheism in the comments section of an Amazon.com Customer review and, as usual, he threw out his personal attacks and talked down to me. You can view what I've written about this here. In that same post I also updated it to include the replies I received from Amazon after I reported his behavior towards me. Shockingly, Amazon claims his attitude and behavior wasn't against their policy, even though they sent me their policy and it clearly did forbid such messages. I was furious at the special treatment Amazon gave to Marshall and his lying asshole buddies.

Update - 6-21-10

A miracle has finally occurred. David Marshall has apologized to me for his unfair and unkind attitude towards me. I had posted a thread at Amazon.com about the incident I recounted above in the 6-6-10 update and Marshall replied with his usual nonsense, which I took screenshots of:





Most of this is the usual crap that I’ve exposed above, especially about how I insult people all the time, how I spread “misinformation” about his work, and about my having some kind of persecution complex. I think if anyone is “trailing off the cliff” it’s definitely Marshall. He is the one who began the old smear campaigns about me and I can prove it. He is the one who has lied about me and I can prove it. His work is what is full of holes, not mine. He is the one who obviously has a persecution complex because he claimed I had been smearing him all over the internet because I had linked to my review of his book in several places on the internet. I know Marshall doesn’t like it when I point his errors out to everyone, but geez, posting a refutation of a book is not a smear campaign! Talk about a persecution complex!

I also think it's pretty sleazy of him to say that I'm trying to provoke him. I posted this in the Atheist Customer Discussion forum and didn’t even include his name in the title! The only thing I was ever trying to do was get him to either apologize to me or admit that he was dishonest. To just be honest for a change. If not that, then have an actual debate with me and treat me with respect, which is something I never got.

But despite all this, I guess it was worth it posting this story at Amazon because a few other atheists wrote in and sympathized with me and I’m not sure if it was because of the number of people responding and so he felt guilt through social pressure or if maybe Marshall actually felt bad, but he finally did apologize to me, which is something I had been hoping for. He did not need to treat me as he did and for all the work I did in fixing those few errors I had made over two years ago and I think he should have thanked me then. But all I wanted was honesty in return from him. Accept your errors and work to correct them. Of course, if that were the case, he’d have to rewrite his entire book! But at least he apologized, which I was very shocked about. When I read his initial replies, which he has since deleted (then he apologized to me), I thought, “Oh great, here we go again with all the same shit.” But for whatever reason, Marshall decided to apologize. Perhaps that’s how he figured he’d get me off his ass and stop me from exposing him any more than I already had. Ha ha! I suppose now that he’s apologized and I apologized for responding rudely in kind it’s created a sort of truce and I’m fine with that. I’m just sick of all the lies and drama that’s gone on the last two and a half years. I swear, it’s been like a damn soap opera!

I hope this is the end of it. And allow me to again thank David Marshall officially on my blog for finally apologizing to me. It’s long over due and very much deserved.



THANK YOU, DAVID MARSHALL. APOLOGY ACCEPTED.

I guess he actually does have a spine after all! It’s a miracle! And unlike him (see above), I’m not going to stab him in the back after his apology and spread his rude behavior all over the Amazon forums, just as he did when I apologized to him for a mistake I had made. I’m a bigger man than Marshall.

Update - 6-28-10

Well, that didn’t last long. David Marshall is at it again, and even after apologizing to me he is at it again with his insults. Sleezy, slimy, backstabbing asshole. I officially take back my apology. Fuck you, Marshall. You don’t deserve an apology. In fact, he insults me three times in just that one reply! You can view it here. And, as usual, he resorts to his smear campaign again. Man, he really is on a roll getting right back into his usual bullshit!



Update - 7-12-10

I was browsing Amazon.com and came across David Marshall's silly review of John Loftus' The Christian Delusion and in the comments section he got his ass kicked by Hector Avalos and Loftus put Marshall in his place a few times.

The thing I wanted to comment on was Marshall’s hypocrisy. For I don’t know how long Marshall has talked down to me and insulted me because of my lack of higher education, and yet here is Marshall during this discussion saying he believes that “most real education is self-education.” What the fuck!? Right. When someone else questions your credentials you play that card, but when someone else does it you insult them. Fucking idiot. During that same ass kicking he endured he also said the following:

“Most important, though, what's the point? Arguments stand or fall on their own merits. If you think my writing stinks, then what would it matter if I were Regius Professor of All Human Knowledge at Cambridge? If (as happens) my arguments have merit, what would it matter if I dig ditches for a living?”

I’ve been telling this to Marshall for I don’t know how long, and yet he continues to say shit like this to me (as shown in above screenshot):

“Again, Ken, I’ll match your expertise on communism, against mine, any day. Which languages do you read? How much do you know about the religious beliefs of Marx and his earliest followers? In which universities, and under what credentialed experts, have you studied the issue? [...]”

Fucking hypocrite. Judging from his comments he seems mostly self-taught as well. What an asshole! He’s such a dick, a hypocrite and holds double standards.

This page is now about 30 pages in length. 30 damn pages exposing Marshall to be a tremendous hypocrite, a liar, an asshole, and entirely delusional. Maybe I’ll stop building upon this post because I think I have more than enough evidence to prove my point.

If any readers have made it this far, congratulations. You’ve just witnessed a handful of Christians lying, being tremendous hypocrites, and insulting myself and others for no reason. Not everything that comes out of their mouths is an outright lie obviously, but I would be very hesitant to trust anything they say since they obviously have issues with telling the truth. I also believe that from now on, if they call anyone “immature” during any future discussions, they don’t need to look any further than their own mirrors to find the immaturity that they project onto others.

The Lies, Distortions, Hypocrisy, and Immaturity of David Marshall, et al.

Boy Steals Car to Avoid Church!

I found this very interesting story about a seven year old boy who lead police on a chase after taking off in his father's car to avoid having to go to church!!! Smart kid...

If I was being forced into a form of indoctrination I'd take off in my parents' car too!!!

I'm curious if the kid has read Richard Dawkins' book where he advises parents to let their children make up their own mind about religion. Seems this kid really took that advice to heart!

The story is reproduced below for convenience:

Utah boy goes for spin to avoid church
7-year-old leads officers on a chase; dad told to keep keys safe
Associated Press

updated 12:03 p.m. MT, Wed., July 29, 2009


PLAIN CITY, Utah - Police in Utah say a 7-year-old boy led officers on a car chase in an effort to avoid going to church.

Dispatchers received reports of a child driving recklessly on Sunday morning. Weber County Sheriff's Capt. Klint Anderson says one witness said the boy drove through a stop sign.
Anderson says two deputies caught up with the boy and tried unsuccessfully to stop the Dodge Intrepid in an area about 45 miles north of Salt Lake City. The car reached 40 mph before the boy stopped in a driveway and ran inside a home.

Anderson says when the boy's father later confronted him, the boy said he didn't want to go to church. The boy is too young to prosecute and no citations were issued, although police did urge the father to make his car keys more inaccessible to children.

Boy Steals Car to Avoid Church!

Another Case of "Child Abuse"

Several months ago I wrote a series of posts about many theists' misinterpretation of Richard Dawkins' views on what he calls "child abuse."

Let me ask again, does anyone not see this as child abuse??? Yet another case of stupid religious beliefs causing unnecessary harm and death!

From msnbc.msn.com:


Faith-healing pair acquitted of manslaughter
Ore. couple had been on trial for the death of their 15-month-old daughter

updated 5:48 p.m. MT, Thurs., July 23, 2009


OREGON CITY, Ore. - An Oregon couple who relied on prayer instead of medical care were acquitted of manslaughter Thursday in the death of their 15-month-old daughter.

The jury convicted the father, Carl Brent Worthington, of criminal mistreatment, a misdemeanor carrying a maximum sentence of a year in jail. The mother, Raylene Worthington, was acquitted in the 2008 death of their daughter Ava.

Both had faced manslaughter charges, which could have carried a sentence of up to six years in prison. The mother also was acquitted of criminal mistreatment.

The prosecution said Ava Worthington failed to flourish through most of her life because of a cyst on her neck that impeded her breathing and eating, contributing to her fatal pneumonia. She died on a Sunday evening after family and church members prayed over her and anointed her with olive oil.

The state medical examiner said she could easily have been saved with antibiotics.

‘They’re not monsters’

[Fist I'd like to say BULLSHIT Of course they are! - Ken]

But the defense attacked the credibility of the state's expert witnesses and said the child died of a fast-moving form of sepsis, an infection. The Worthingtons testified that the cyst was a trait in the father's family and that they thought their child only had a cold.

Jurors saw the Worthingtons as loving, caring parents, said 25-year-old juror Ashlee Santos.

"They're people. They're not monsters," she said at a press conference at the Clackamas County courthouse. "They had no intention of harming their child. They're good parents."

She said the father was convicted of criminal mistreatment because the mother wasn't monitoring the girl as closely as he was, so he was more responsible for her condition.

During the trial, the defense made a point of noting that in families of the Worthingtons' church, the Followers of Christ, husbands make all important decisions.

District Attorney John Foote said Thursday prosecutors were "saddened and disappointed," convinced the facts were clear in this case, and determined to be aggressive in enforcing "laws that require parents to protect their children regardless of their religious faith."

The Followers of Christ shuns conventional medicine in favor of faith healing. The church has been in Oregon City since early in the 20th century. Its members, by their own description and that of others, keep to themselves.

First test of law

The trial was the first under a 10-year-old Oregon law that bars legal defenses based on religious practices in most abuse cases. The law was a response to previous deaths among young members of the Followers of Christ.

The jurors reported on Monday that they were deadlocked on all the charges, but Judge Steven Maurer sent them back to deliberate. Under Oregon law, the verdicts required only 10 votes among the 12-member jury. The jury included eight men and four women.

Throughout the trial, which lasted nearly four weeks, members of the church were in the gallery. Courtroom crowds ranged from about 40 people to as many as 80. Carl Brent Worthington and other church members refused to speak to reporters after the verdict was announced.

The husband, who goes by Brent, is a commercial painter. Raylene Worthington is a homemaker and is pregnant.

After Ava's death, their surviving daughter, then 4, got a medical checkup at the insistence of Oregon child welfare workers, one of whom testified at a hearing last year the girl was in good health.

The father's sentencing is scheduled July 31.

Another Case of "Child Abuse"

The Lucifer Effect: Catholic Church Edition

From feministing.com, a nine year old girl was raped by her stepfather, got pregnant with twins, and had an abortion because of the young age of the girl, and yet the catholic church decides to excommunicate everyone involved in the abortion!!! And this, even though abortion is perfectly legal in Brazil in cases of rape! Of course, I think abortion should be allowed everywhere period, screw "laws", but for these pompous, self-righteous assholes to do such a thing is pure EVIL!

Like many times throughout history the church has played roles in some horrific events, they once again have demonstrated their willingness to play the role of their own personification of evil: lucifer, which is why I am using this edition of The Lucifer Effect to write about this story.

The above linked to story is reproduced below:

Roman Catholic Church: Excommunication for all who supported 9-year old rape victim's abortion

There really are no words for this kind of case.

A community poster already covered the uproar by the Brazilian Roman Catholic Church of the abortion of a 9-year old girl who was raped by her stepfather. This is despite the fact that abortion is legal in Brazil in cases of rape and when the woman's life is in danger, which both applies to this girl (as she not only weighs just 80 pounds but was pregnant with twins):

The Catholic Church tried to intervene to prevent the abortion going ahead but the procedure was carried out on Wednesday.

Now a Church spokesman says all those involved, including the child's mother and the doctors, are to be excommunicated.

The Archbishop of Olinda and Recife, Jose Cardoso Sobrinho, told Brazil's TV Globo that the law of God was above any human law.

He said the excommunication would not apply to the child because of her age, but would affect all those who ensured the abortion was carried out.

How merciful of them.

Here is the story linked to above:

I'm so appalled

On Wednesday, a nine-year-old girl who was pregnant with twins after her stepfather raped her underwent an abortion in Brazil despite vocal objection from the Brazil Roman Catholic Church.

It's good to know that two fetuses are more important than the physical and psychological well-being of an actual child. I thought it might be morally reprehensible to force an eighty pound girl to give birth to twins after a grown man brutally attacks her, but clearly I stand corrected.

It makes me absolutely sick to see instances where this little girl - who probably wants nothing more than to be a kid again - has to put up a fight just to begin piecing her life back together. Was she treated with respect and dignity during this process? Is she receiving the help she needs? I don't know. I would like to assume yes, but when a huge entity like the Catholic Church turns on a defenseless child, I'm somewhat skeptical that the healing process was really the number one priority on the table here.

The Lucifer Effect: Catholic Church Edition

The Lucifer Effect: Special Edition

Here are a few police misconduct and murder cases that have recently taken place. This first one was sent to me by Jay, a reader. He sometimes sends me stories for my Lucifer Effect posts and it's a huge help. Thanks again Jay for the help!


From the msnbc.msn.com website:

Man killed by deputy after day of swimming
Cop confronts 24-year-old wearing only swim trunks for erratic driving
updated 6:31 a.m. MT, Wed., July 22, 2009


KASOTA, Minn. - A plainclothes sheriff's deputy shot and killed an unarmed 24-year-old man wearing only swim trunks after an argument ensued when he confronted the man for erratic driving, authorities and witnesses said Tuesday.

Le Sueur County Sheriff's investigator Todd Waldron, 37, shot Tyler Heilman after the two scuffled Monday in Kasota, a town about 60 miles southwest of Minneapolis, when Heilman returned from a day of swimming with friends. Those who saw the argument said it wasn't clear the man he was fighting with was a law enforcement officer.

"This ain't right," said Heilman's father, Mark Heilman. "I think the cop just freaked ... Why didn't he just say 'Freeze' or something? Or shoot him in the leg? He shot to kill ... I think he just flipped."

Authorities said Waldron was working another case and driving an unmarked sport utility vehicle on Monday when he saw Heilman driving a car erratically, and at times speeding, so he followed him. At one point, Heilman drove his car off the road and up an embankment.

Investigators with the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension believe Waldron fired four shots. Bureau spokesman Andy Skoogman said Waldron was not in uniform, but he had a sheriff's badge on his belt. Waldron was not working undercover, and Skoogman said authorities are investigating whether the deputy identified himself.

Witnesses give a similar account. Kris Hoehn, who was in the car with Heilman and other friends, said the group was on its way back from a day of swimming at the Minnesota River when they noticed an SUV following them. Hoehn acknowledged the vehicle may have swerved some, and he said Heilman drove up a sledding hill at one point.

'That's when he seen the badge'

Hoehn said the group didn't know Waldron was a deputy. When they arrived at the apartment complex, Waldron asked Heilman for a driver's license, and then the two started arguing, Hoehn said. He said Heilman and the deputy ended up wrestling on the ground.

Heilman ended up on top of Waldron, but got up and "that's when he seen the badge — as he's getting up," Hoehn said. "Then came the gunshots, just as my buddy's hands were going up.

"It was too late. ... We had no idea who he was. If we would have known he was a cop, none of this would've happened," said Hoehn, 24.

Hoehn said Heilman was gasping for breath and said, "I'm done, man. I'm done." He staggered a few feet and fell, face down, on the grass.

It wasn't clear if alcohol played a role in the argument. Tyler Heilman was treated for alcohol abuse while in high school, but his father said he had kicked the problem, though he still drank a little bit. Hoehn said the group of friends had been drinking "a little" on Monday, but not enough to affect Heilman's driving. Authorities are conducting an autopsy, which will include toxicology tests.

Summoned by a friend who heard about the shooting, Heilman's father arrived at the scene moments later to find the area sectioned off by police tape, and his son lying on the ground as firefighters attempted to revive him. Heilman said his son was shot twice in the chest while another bullet grazed his right side, and he made the sign of the cross on his forehead a few times.

"I just knelt down by his head, brushed his head, brushed his scar," Heilman said in a telephone interview, noting that his son had brain surgery in May to remove a blood clot.

Investigation could take weeks

Skoogman said Waldron suffered non-life-threatening injuries, but did not elaborate. The incident — from the time Waldron started following Heilman to the shooting — lasted less than 20 minutes, he said. There was no weapon found on Heilman or in his car, Skoogman said.

Waldron, who has been a deputy with the department for 10 years, has been placed on standard paid administrative leave, and the investigation could take six to eight weeks, Skoogman said. The BCA said Waldron has never been disciplined. Waldron's resume indicates he also worked as a jailer with the department. He was promoted to investigator in 2004 and focuses on narcotics, sexual assaults and robberies, Skoogman said.

Waldron also served as a patrol officer with three small-town police departments and has a degree in law enforcement from Minnesota State University, Mankato. He's taken several continuing education training courses, including training in use of deadly force, according to his personnel records.

A working phone number for Waldron could not be found and his parents, whose house he visited on Tuesday, declined comment.

Heilman acknowledged his son had gotten into past trouble for stealing and getting into fights, but said he had no serious problems in the last five years. Court records show Tyler Heilman has more than a dozen convictions in recent years, mostly from 2004-2006, and mostly for traffic and alcohol violations. He pleaded guilty to burglary in 2004 and also has a petty misdemeanor drug conviction and a misdemeanor assault conviction. His most recent conviction was in 2008 for driving with a suspended license.




This next one clearly demonstrates the abuse of power that pigs often commit against innocent people. From blog.populistamerica.com:


Living in a Police State

July 23rd, 2009 by Dave Lindorff

The point about the arrest Monday by a Cambridge Police sergeant of Harvard Distinguished Professor Henry “Skip” Gates is not that the police initially thought the celebrated public intellectual, PBS host and MacArthur Award winner might have been a crook who had broken into Gates’ rented home. Anyone capable of seeing a 58-year-old man with a cane accompanied by a man in a tux as a potential burglar might make the same mistake, given that a neighbor had allegedly called 911 to report seeing two black men she thought were breaking into the house.

But after Prof. Gates had shown the cops his faculty ID and his drivers’ license, and had thus verified his identity, and after he had explained that he had just returned home on a flight from China and had been getting help from his limo driver in opening a stuck door, the cops should have been extremely polite and apologetic for having suspected him and for having insisted on checking him out.

After all, a man’s home is supposed to be his castle. When you violate that sanctity, you should, as a police officer, appreciate that the owner might be upset.

But where it really goes wrong is what happened next.

Prof. Gates, who was understandably outraged at the whole situation, properly told the sergeant that he wanted his name and his badge number, because he intended to file a complaint. Whether or not the officer had done anything wrong by that point is not the issue. It was Gates’ right as a citizen to file a complaint. The officer’s alleged refusal to provide his name and badge number was improper and, if Gates’ claim is correct, was a violation of the rules that are in force in every police department in the country.

But whatever the real story is regarding the showing of identification information by Gates and the officer, police misconduct in this incident went further. Gates reportedly got understandably angry and frustrated at the officer for refusing to provide him with this identifying information and/or for refusing to accept his own identification documents, and at that point the officer abused his power by arresting Gates and charging him with disorderly conduct.

There’s nothing unusual about this, sadly. It is common practice for police in America to abuse their authority and to arrest people on a charge of “disorderly conduct” when those people simply exercise their free speech rights and object strenuously to how they are being treated by an officer. Try it out sometime. If you are given a ticket for going five miles an hour over the posted speed limit, tell the traffic officer he or she is a stupid moron, and see if you are left alone. My bet is that you will find yourself either ticketed on another more serious charge, or even arrested for “disorderly conduct.” If you happen to be black or some other race than white, I’ll even put money on that bet. (If you’re stupid enough to go out and test this hypothesis, please don’t expect me to post your bail!)

There is no suggestion by police that Gates physically threatened the arresting officer. His “crime” at the time was simply speaking out.

What is unusual is not that the officer arrested Gates for exercising his rights. That kind of thing happens all the time. What’s unusual is that this time the police levied their false charge against a man who is among the best known academics in the country, who knows his rights, and who has access to the best legal talent in the nation to make his case (his colleagues at the Harvard Law School).

Very little of the mainstream reporting I’ve seen on this event makes the crucial point that it is not illegal to tell a police officer that he is a jerk, or that he has done something wrong, or that you are going to file charges against him. And yet too many commentators, journalists and ordinary people seem to accept that if a citizen “mouths off” to a cop, or criticizes a cop, or threatens legal action against a cop, it’s okay for that cop to cuff the person and charge him with “disorderly conduct.” Worse yet, if a cop makes such a bogus arrest, and the person gets upset, he’s liable to get an added charge of “resisting arrest” or worse.

We have, as a nation, sunk to the level of a police state, when we grant our police the unfettered power to arrest honest, law-abiding citizens for simply stating their minds. And it’s no consolation that someone like Gates can count on having such charges tossed out. It’s the arrest, the cuffing, and the humiliating ride in the back of a cop squad car to be booked and held until bailed out that is the outrage.

I’m sure police take a lot of verbal abuse on the job, but given their inherent power—armed and with a license to arrest, to handcuff, and even to shoot and kill—they must be told by their superiors that they have no right to arrest people for simply expressing their views, even about those officers.

Insulting an officer of the law is not a crime. Telling an officer he or she is breaking the law is not a crime. Demanding that an officer identify him or herself is not a crime. And saying you are going to file a complaint against the officer is not a crime.

As someone who, although white, spent his youth in the 1960s and early 1970s with long hair and a scraggly beard–both red flags to police back in the day–and who had his share of run-ins with police for that reason alone, I can understand to some extent what African-Americans, and especially African-American men, go through in dealing with white police officers. I used to be “profiled” as a druggie/lefty/hippy and was stopped regularly for no reason when I lived in Los Angeles and drove an 20-year-old pick-up truck. I’d be pushed up against the vehicle, frisked, shouted at, talked to threateningly. I’d have my vehicle searched (without a warrant). And if I objected, I’d be threatened with arrest, though I had done nothing. Under those circumstances, you quickly learn to be very deferential around police.

Prof. Gates was simply experiencing the frustration that young black men feel routinely, and that I used to feel back when I had hair and chose to grow it long—the feeling of being at the mercy of lawless, power-tripping cops.

In a free country, we should not allow the police, who after all are supposed to be public servants, not centurions, to behave in this manner. When we do, we do not have a free society. We have a police state.

Dave Lindorff, is an award-winning investigative reporter who has been working as a journalist for over 33 years. He writes frequently for Salon.com, BusinessWeek, The Nation, and many other publications. Dave's most recent book, The Case for Impeachment, is now available. Find all of Dave Lindorff's works on his website, www.thiscantbehappening.net.

The Lucifer Effect: Special Edition

Help Me Out At Examiner.com!

I'm reposting this because I was hoping even more people might read this and help me out by going to read my articles.


I've just recently signed up to be the "Evolution Examiner" at Examiner.com. So far I've gotten two articles posted explaining what Creationism and Intelligent Design are to give anyone not familiar some background information and later on I'm planning on going through and refuting various I.D. arguments. In just the short time since my account was activated I've gotten a few very positive comments.

The reason I said I thought I'd never do this is because I've put my real name and picture up online. Yes, the true identity of the Arizona Atheist is finally revealed!!!

I never thought I'd use my real name but I needed some extra cash and this was a pretty easy thing so I decided to break my rule. Let's hope no crazy theists try to kill me now....

Be forewarned though. I have a large store of weapons in my home and I'm a second-degree black belt so break into my home at your own risk!

But I ask all my readers to please go view my articles because the more people that view them the more money I make. Also feel free to spread them to other social networking sites too!

Thank you for your support!

Help Me Out At Examiner.com!

Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol Visitor Center

In a Yahoo.com news report the Freedom From Religion Foundation is suing to keep the phrase "In God We Trust" and Pledge of Allegiance from being engraved "in prominent spots at the Capitol Visitor Center."

Below is the story for reader convenience:


Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol Visitor Center
By Rob Hotakainen, McClatchy Newspapers Rob Hotakainen, Mcclatchy Newspapers – Sat Jul 18, 6:00 am ET


WASHINGTON — A California Republican congressman wants to do a little writing on the walls of Washington's newest federal building. If Rep. Dan Lungren gets his way, Congress will spend nearly $100,000 to engrave the words "In God We Trust " and the Pledge of Allegiance in prominent spots at the Capitol Visitor Center .

Lungren's proposal drew only a whimper of opposition last week when the House of Representatives voted 410-8 to approve it. Now, however, Lungren finds himself tussling with a national atheists and agnostics group.

The Wisconsin -based Freedom From Religion Foundation Inc. sued this week to stop the engraving, accusing Lungren of trying to force his religious beliefs on as many as 15 percent of all U.S. adults. That comprises "atheists, agnostics, skeptics and freethinkers, none of whom possess a belief in a god," according to the lawsuit.

"It really is a Judeo-Christian endorsement by our government, and so Lungren is wrong," said Dan Barker of Madison, Wis. , a co-president of the foundation. "Lungren and others are pro-religious, and they want to actually use the machinery of government to promote their particular private religious views. That is unconstitutional, and that's what we're asking the court to decide."

The Senate has approved a similar plan introduced by Republican Sen. Jim DeMint of South Carolina . The congressional directive orders the Capitol architect to make the changes in the design of the $621 million center, which opened last December.

The Freedom From Religion Foundation , which has 13,500 members, sued in U.S. District Court in Wisconsin . It alleges that Congress is trying to make belief in God synonymous with citizenship and "discouraging nonbelief" among Americans, a contention that Lungren rejects.

Lungren said that the phrase "In God We Trust " had a long history and was consistent with the beliefs of America's founding fathers. He also said that the Declaration of Independence referred to rights given by a creator.

Lungren, a former California attorney general, said that while the proposed engravings incorporated religious references, they didn't violate the Constitution.

"What we're doing is making a specific historical reference to the beginnings of this republic," he said. "To ignore this or to forbid this statement or something like it to appear is to distort history. . . . We're not trying to change history. We're trying to enshrine history in the Capitol Visitor Center ."

Barker said history was better left to others.

"It's not the job of our government and our government buildings to do that," he said. "Historians can point out that many of our founders were indeed religious. But saying 'In God We Trust' in the visitors center of the Capitol is not just some historical reference. It's actually government speaking for all of us Americans."

Barker said the foundation had been waiting for the right case to challenge "In God We Trust ." He said government actions could be challenged on state-church grounds if they had specific religious agendas. In this case, he said, backers of Lungren's plan have provided "the smoking guns" by giving specific, overt religious reasons for doing the engraving.

Barker said that atheists regarded the phrase "In God We Trust " as rude, uncivil and un-American.

"Tens of millions of really good Americans don't believe in God," he said. "In fact, there's many more nonbelievers than there are Jews, and we wouldn't think of offending Jews on our national monuments. . . . Why is it wrong to offend a Jewish minority but it's not wrong to offend those of us who serve in the military and sit on juries but we don't believe in God?"

He said no hearing had been set.

Lungren is confident that a federal judge will allow the engraving to proceed.

"I never thought I'd see the day when someone would sue to stop us putting in the United States Capitol a statement of the national motto and the Pledge of Allegiance," he said. "Suggesting that the Pledge of Allegiance and the national motto is un-American in some way — talk about turning ideas on their heads."



Here is yet another attempt at distorting the beliefs of the 'founding fathers' to advance a theistic agenda by Republicans. A minority of the 'founders' were Orthodox christians. In fact only three of the most prominent 'founders' were even christian! They were John Jay, Samuel Adams, and Elias Boudinot. The majority of the other 'founders' are a blend of Deists and Unitarians. Such examples were Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, John Adams, and Benjamin Franklin. [1]

I hope the FFRF win this lawsuit because it's a clear violation of the separation of church and state. Even more than that, the pledge didn't even add the "under god" part until 1954 [2], which was changed from a more uniting motto to one that is clearly divisive. [3]






1. The Faiths of the Founding Fathers, by David L. Holmes

2. Wikipedia.org - Pledge of Allegiance; accessed 7-19-09

3. The Pledge of Allegiance: America's Little Hypocrisy, by Steven Schafersman - April, 2003

Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol Visitor Center

Forget Police Brutality, Here's Some Police Stupidity!

When you thought cops couldn't get any stupider [see the last video], I find this today. It seems legit, but if anyone know if it's a spoof please let me know.

Here is the story:

Facebook police raided my family barbecue
Thursday, July 16, 2009

Riot police stormed a 30th birthday party for just 15 people and shut it down, thinking it was a rave because it was advertised on Facebook.

Four police cars, a riot van and a helicopter were involved in the swoop on Andrew Poole's gathering for his family and friends.

He was just about to light the barbecue and had not even turned on the music when the gazebo suddenly started flapping wildly and the sound of chopper blades filled the air.

Eight officers wearing camouflage trousers and body armour jumped out and demanded that the 'rave' to be shut down.

Mr Poole said: 'We were nowhere near anyone. We weren't even playing any music. What effectively the police did was come in and stop 15 people eating burgers.'

Grilling within tent: The gazebo police said was intended to host a wild rave

The party was organized using the create an event facility on Facebook.

Mr Poole, a coach driver, said he invited 17 family and friends and two had not even arrived by the time the helicopter was whirring overhead.

Mr Poole said: 'All of a sudden there was this noise in the sky. The thing then hovered over us for about 25 minutes, watching 15 people eat. They told us to take down the sound system and said everybody's got to leave.

'It was 4pm and we hadn't even plugged the music in yet. We tried to reason with them but they were having none of it.'

Mr Poole said he spent £800 on food and a generator.

Yesterday, police insisted they were right to end the party. 'We were extremely concerned how the event had been advertised on the internet as an all-night party,' a spokesman said.

Forget Police Brutality, Here's Some Police Stupidity!