Three years ago to the day I posted my first review of the christian apologist David Marshall’s book The Truth Behind the New Atheism: Responding to the Emerging Challenges to God and Christianity. It’s hard to believe it’s been that long and a lot has happened since that time. The review has gone through three editions, with the final edition being a massive 111 pages. I go into quite a bit of detail and give facts why each of Marshall’s arguments in each chapter are fatally flawed. I pick apart his flawed arguments about the bible, accusations about Richard Dawkins, evolution, and evolutionary morality, among other subjects.
You can view this review here: The Truth Behind the New Atheism: A Refutation. Yes it’s very long but I’m sure it’s worth your while if you have the time to read it.
I had written a pretty negative review of the book at Amazon.com and this seemed to really upset Marshall and a few of his irrational and immature buddies because ever since I posted my review I have been harassed, insulted, lied about, and had a large smear campaign waged against me by Marshall and two other theists on Amazon.com. I write about this briefly in an Afterward in the newest edition of my review of The Truth Behind the New Atheism and give the facts of what actually took place.
Even to this day Marshall still wages his smear campaign against me, going so far as to just make up shit about me in order to discredit me. The most recent example took place last month when I was notified that a new comment had been posted at my Amazon.com review of The Delusion of Disbelief. He actually said that I was allegedly “frustrated by [my] inability to argue rationally” and so Marshall claims I’ve taken to sending him "obscene hate messages." Stretching his lie even further he says, “I cannot post them on Amazon, and wouldn't want to.” Marshall’s nose must be several miles long by now... *
Hmmm... I’d sure like to know what “obscene hate messages” I’ve supposedly sent because it’s the honest truth that I’ve never done such a thing. The truth is that the only time I ever emailed Marshall was to ask where I could find a copy of David Aikman’s dissertation titled The Role of Atheism in the Marxist Tradition. This I did anonymously because I believed I wouldn’t get an answer otherwise so I pretended to be a christian interested in the book and obviously wasn’t rude at all. Other than that the only places I’ve corresponded with him is on Amazon.com and one atheist blog where I responded to his smear campaigns and distortion of events. That’s it! If one wants to see ‘hateful’ messages one needs to look no further than Marshall’s own posts to me and other atheists. His attitude towards those who disagree with him are belittling, sometimes hateful, and more often than not very rude and immature. **
Marshall, to avoid giving any proof of this allegation whatsoever, claims he doesn’t want to post the messages on Amazon, but how about his personal blog?
Want more proof? Another outright lie about me by Marshall occurred not too long ago at Debunking Christianity after John Loftus linked to my blog. Marshall actually had the balls to spew the following load of complete bullshit:
You respond by pretending (against B) that scholars are really all on your side, and by citing -- get this -- Arizona Atheist? (aka "Gifted Writer" aka "Angry Atheist" aka Ken?) A guy who, when confronted (not just by me) with the absurdity of his arguments, those he is willing to show, that is, laspses into fantasies about the death of his opponent, pornographical posts, and obscurity of the kind we all know and love -- I'm right because no one is going to follow me to THIS web site and prove me wrong? ***
Everything he said here is an outright lie! He has completely crossed the line now with these damn lies. He is nothing but a despicable, unethical, christian apologist. He’s nothing but a disgusting piece of filthy garbage in my eyes. I won't say anything more about them since I've already addressed them in another post.
I’m calling Marshall’s bluff. If he has these alleged “obscene” messages, 'pornographic' posts, etc. I challenge him to post them on his personal blog. Let’s see what proof he has. I’m betting none will see the light of day. I wouldn’t be surprised if in an attempt to answer this challenge he just makes up something and claims I said it. Though, I know he won’t be able to post a damn thing with my name, IP address, email, or anything else on it proving I sent anything to him because it’s a damn lie to begin with. I want proof, not these pathetic and immature allegations.
These bold-faced lies truly make my blood boil because at the very least when Marshall complains of me calling him names on Amazon.com that is true, though he leaves out the reasons for this: the fact that he’s been insulting and talking down to me since our very first exchanges and I finally lost my tempter. Usually Marshall makes use of his own biased view of events, but this about hate messages and whatnot is an outright lie!!! I’ve never emailed Marshall (other than that one time) or said anything to him outside of Amazon.com (again, other than the other atheist’s blog). There is no possible way he could simply be distorting events. He is simply spreading outright falsehoods this time around. It’s clear that over time his lies have gotten more brazen and, instead of simply being his biased interpretation of events, what he’s been saying about me lately are nothing more than bold-faced, unadulterated lies. My guess is that he’s seen my large post exposing him as a liar so he’s trying to spread dishonest things about me in retaliation. But there’s only one problem for Marshall. I’m telling the truth and have the evidence to back it up. Marshall isn’t being the least bit honest and doesn’t have a shred of evidence.
Despite Marshall and a few other critics I’ve gotten nothing but praise for my review. Please read it and I hope you enjoy it and I’m always looking for constructive criticism because I’m sure there is still room for improvement and if I’ve made any errors please let me know about them.
By the way, I recently found that my review of the The Truth Behind the New Atheism is number three down the list on the first search page on Yahoo for the search term “The Truth Behind the New Atheism”. Awesome! On Google it's number six!
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** In fact, I have a few folders on my computer of over 200 screenshots (actual number may be a bit different due to possible duplicates) that have been saved of many of David Marshall, J.R. Fraser, and Bruce Bain’s lies, insults, and smear campaigns against myself and others.
Some may also wonder why I even bothered to collect these many examples. Well, it’s pretty simple. For years Marshall has been claiming that all I and a few others atheists do to him is lie about his book and smear him and not deal with his arguments. In fact, here’s one recent example of this (see picture below also). On the contrary, through the many screnshots I’ve gathered, I’ve proven that it’s actually Marshall who displays such behavior.
The reason I chose screenshots as the method of saving these many examples is because if all I did was ‘copy and paste’ them there would be no way to validate them and I could simply be making it all up and typed out said insult myself! By taking an actual picture of what’s said I can prove that what I say is true and there’s no way anyone can deny it.
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Wow. I've been more and more surprised at how atheists are sometimes treated by Christians. While I've not had many back and forth dialogs, posts like this one and the post by Thom Stark of a discussion between him and J.P. Holding or his series of discussions with Matt Flanagan have surprised me. I guess I would have figure that Christian apologists would behave like... "Christians."
ReplyDeleteThe more I engage this world, the more I have wondered if there are really two groups of Christians:
- the group that is rather ignorant about the faith but extremely "gunh-ho" about the "life of Christ" way of living, loving others, dying to self, deep devotions, constant prayer, etc.
- the group that knows enough to know it's far from decided and only engages this area from an academic standpoint to defend it and really possesses about nothing else in common with the term "Christian" other than a brain full of arguments.
Sure, that's a heck of a skewed division -- there will be deviations. In my listening to debates and talks and interviews (usually featuring those in the second group0, I would say that anecdotally I rarely encounter any who "radiate" the features of a Christian that I used to try to adhere to. I would also say that those who have the passion I would consider admirable rarely have the background knowledge with which to carry on a friendly debate.
Though, in the end at least both groups tend to have something in common: they get really, really mad when challenged, told they are wrong, or even mildly insulted.
Hi Hendy, thanks for the comment. I can understand your surprise. When I first began talking with Marshall I had no clue I would be met with such hostility and dishonesty. If I knew then what I know now I would have captured all of our early discussions since the ones I have pictures of aren’t the only times they’ve lied about me. It still blows my mind the maturity level and audacity of some of these christians.
ReplyDeleteI read those posts not too long ago on Tom Stark’s blog and I’m glad he outed those individuals. I think atheists need to do that more often because, despite what I’ve seen many christians say about atheists, I’ve found it’s usually the christians who throw the first stone (or insult) in a debate.
I'd have to agree with your categories of the two kinds of christians. I've noticed this is how many act as I’ve corresponded with christians over the years, and like you, watched debates but have never seen it expressed in words. Very interesting and is something to think about.