tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5802793022423388420.post326700918569758679..comments2023-03-29T17:28:56.467-07:00Comments on ARIZONA ATHEIST: William Lane Craig's Arguments for God RefutedUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger71125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5802793022423388420.post-69796335799988977692013-08-01T05:07:59.562-07:002013-08-01T05:07:59.562-07:00Just a collection of lies of one nutty professor.Just a collection of lies of one nutty professor.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5802793022423388420.post-72079533543078032082013-07-13T08:49:30.544-07:002013-07-13T08:49:30.544-07:00Hi Dave,
Thanks for reading! Unfortunately, I rec...Hi Dave,<br /><br />Thanks for reading! Unfortunately, I recently changed my email address, forgot about the emails I had saved on the account, and I lost them. But don't worry. The vast majority of the discussion has been copied in Victor Stenger's book <i>The Fallacy of Fine-Tuning</i>, pgs. 127-132. I can verify that the emails are accurate and all the relevant ones are there.Arizona Atheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17377658912951142427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5802793022423388420.post-4136720094709187892013-07-13T06:01:33.655-07:002013-07-13T06:01:33.655-07:00Hi, fantastic and fascinating blog! Would it be po...Hi, fantastic and fascinating blog! Would it be possible to see a copy of the emails cited in [3]? Thanks!<br /><br />DaveDave Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18311480465168611413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5802793022423388420.post-30026891211023707842013-07-07T17:54:49.177-07:002013-07-07T17:54:49.177-07:00I see - the way I define Universal is probably les...I see - the way I define Universal is probably less rigorous than yours, but the way I see morality is "how one will handle oneself with others"; i.e. more of a principle rather than a set of rules. So I see Utilitarianism as a good set of principle. <br /><br />In practice I disagree it's not practical, as most do calculate rather effortlessly. It's surprising how automaticallyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5802793022423388420.post-89334892003093895892013-07-07T09:12:31.633-07:002013-07-07T09:12:31.633-07:00Hi Mr./Ms. Anonymous,
Thanks for reading! I belie...Hi Mr./Ms. Anonymous,<br /><br />Thanks for reading! I believe that it's a little bit of both. I see a mostly relative morality throughout history, since morality has changed over time. Because it changes, certain moral facts can't be universal. However, I do agree that there are several universals that do span across cultures and time. Michael Shermer lists many of these in his book <i>Arizona Atheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17377658912951142427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5802793022423388420.post-80767974950229919522013-07-06T21:57:56.547-07:002013-07-06T21:57:56.547-07:00Thanks for the post - although I agree with a few ...Thanks for the post - although I agree with a few above that it can be much shortened and therefore tightened for blog consumption.<br /><br />The difficulty with KCA resides in that it's often stated much more strongly than its argument actually make out - that Craig appeals on authority but cherry pick his choice of science to prove his own point while ignoring that it's not a foregone Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5802793022423388420.post-64542746672357117972013-02-15T12:06:10.207-07:002013-02-15T12:06:10.207-07:00Arizona Atheist, what a wonderful refutation of WL...Arizona Atheist, what a wonderful refutation of WLC, the sophist!<br /> Skeptic Griggsy<br /><br /> Here lie some of my blogs to which you and others might contribute. Please vet my arguments should you read them!<br /> http://fraudsway.wordpress.com<br /> http://fraudways.wordpress.com<br /> http://moralalley.wordpress.com<br /> http://morallane.wordpress.com<br /> http://carnedes.blogspot.com<Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5802793022423388420.post-33532441975635948102013-02-11T01:45:25.099-07:002013-02-11T01:45:25.099-07:00Regarding the moral argument, why does everyone th...Regarding the moral argument, why does everyone think that you need to go through the trouble of refuting his arguments for the two premises?<br />I think it would be a far simpler way to show that by virtue of its construction, Craig's moral argument fails theoretically. I would appreciate it if you gave me your opinions on this:<br /><br />Original argument:<br />1. If God does not exist, Mihai Tartahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15579696857185529072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5802793022423388420.post-33535566108419308972012-06-13T23:23:00.318-07:002012-06-13T23:23:00.318-07:00Mr./Ms. Anonymous,
Pretty nutty isn't it, wha...Mr./Ms. Anonymous,<br /><br />Pretty nutty isn't it, what Craig said? I think you summed it up nicely.Arizona Atheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17377658912951142427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5802793022423388420.post-37145331995351100112012-06-13T22:45:25.639-07:002012-06-13T22:45:25.639-07:00There seems to be only one way out of this dilemma...<i>There seems to be only one way out of this dilemma, and that’s to say that the cause of the universe’s beginning is a personal agent who freely chooses to create a universe in time. Philosophers call this type of causation “agent causation,” and because the agent is free, he can initiate new effects by freely bringing about conditions that were not previously present. </i><br />The other way Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5802793022423388420.post-78846214522906297342012-05-29T07:37:05.505-07:002012-05-29T07:37:05.505-07:00Thanks for the comments Anonymous. I completely ag...Thanks for the comments Anonymous. I completely agree with you. Thanks for stopping by! Take care.Arizona Atheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17377658912951142427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5802793022423388420.post-67775191399329185012012-04-30T12:40:51.114-07:002012-04-30T12:40:51.114-07:00Oh yes, forgot to add that when debating, you'...Oh yes, forgot to add that when debating, you'll notice that Craig's contentions invariably are:<br />1. That God cannot be disproved<br />Try and disprove Santa Clause. Let's examine the evidence: Millions believe in him, there are been innumerable reported sightings of him, and he is based on an historical figure. Attempting to disprove God is a trap, you are drawn into the logical Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5802793022423388420.post-14069415447440176812012-04-30T12:06:09.782-07:002012-04-30T12:06:09.782-07:00Nice blog.
I've listened to Craig's argum...Nice blog.<br /><br />I've listened to Craig's arguments and simply cannot believe that such a flawed mix of pseudo-science and frankly incorrect logical reasoning is given serious consideration.<br /><br />The late, great Douglas Adams put it brilliantly: "... imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting holeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5802793022423388420.post-25266362950713257382012-03-05T11:18:17.585-07:002012-03-05T11:18:17.585-07:00You assert that intelligent design from the biolog...<i>You assert that intelligent design from the biological sciences, is a failure. But you don't provide any reason for believing this. Darwinism cannot act until there are self-replicating organisms that natural selection can act upon. But even the simplest self-replicating cell is at least as complex a system as any large city, especially with regard to the "computer code" of DNA. Arizona Atheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17377658912951142427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5802793022423388420.post-83428386275663577252012-03-05T11:16:56.140-07:002012-03-05T11:16:56.140-07:00You again bring up "something out of nothing&...<i>You again bring up "something out of nothing", quoting Hawking. That's magic and miracle, which are contrary to atheism, and contrary to science, but you don't recognize it. You are being very selective in what you believe - applying it to Christian claims like the virgin birth or the Resurrection (I would imagine you do, anyway), but not to the origin of the universe. That&#Arizona Atheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17377658912951142427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5802793022423388420.post-24469906735353158652012-03-05T11:10:57.604-07:002012-03-05T11:10:57.604-07:00Morality
You say you don't believe in objecti...<i>Morality<br /><br />You say you don't believe in objective morality, but you haven't explained why all humans act as though they believe there is objective morality. A Nazi can argue that for mankind to evolve, we must rid the gene pool of Jews, who are sub-human, and we must euthanize the elderly "worthless eaters", and sterilize the "mentally defective", who don&#Arizona Atheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17377658912951142427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5802793022423388420.post-46173781152129105862012-03-05T11:06:36.756-07:002012-03-05T11:06:36.756-07:00You say that an infinite universe is possible, but...<i>You say that an infinite universe is possible, but you don't provide any evidence. Craig provides arguments in his statements "since the series of past events has obviously elapsed, the number of past events must be finite", and "The Second Law of Thermodynamics predicts that in a finite amount of time, the universe will grind down to a cold, dark, dilute, and lifeless stateArizona Atheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17377658912951142427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5802793022423388420.post-69716212712897542932012-03-05T11:04:11.836-07:002012-03-05T11:04:11.836-07:00Hi Ari, thank for the comment. Let's see if yo...Hi Ari, thank for the comment. Let's see if your responses past muster shall we?<br /><br /><i>First of all, just because science doesn't know the cause of these events, doesn't mean there is none. Secondly, I'm not a physicist, but it seems like both of these events involve entropy, which is a known cause of the decline in energy states. Thirdly, the whole point of the premise isArizona Atheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17377658912951142427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5802793022423388420.post-87070025889408829332012-03-03T05:18:08.524-07:002012-03-03T05:18:08.524-07:00You use the fallacy, "After all, if the param...You use the fallacy, "After all, if the parameters were not as they were we wouldn't be here to discuss them anyhow! This hardly implies any sort of design". Craig has refuted this reasoning. He says: "From the fact that we can observe only life-permitting universes, it doesn't follow that no explanation is needed for why there IS a life-permitting universe - why it doesAri Goldberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17214565608168603343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5802793022423388420.post-11172569871473227352012-03-03T05:17:27.826-07:002012-03-03T05:17:27.826-07:00Part 2
You say that since matter cannot be create...Part 2<br /><br />You say that since matter cannot be created or destroyed, this demolishes Craig's argument about the universe coming into existence in the first place. But this law of thermodynamics only applies to an existing universe. In the absence of a universe, there ARE no laws of thermodynamics. We are talking about how the universe itself came into existence. You can't Ari Goldberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17214565608168603343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5802793022423388420.post-73944706138655954912012-03-03T05:16:20.551-07:002012-03-03T05:16:20.551-07:00You say: "According to modern physics, howev...You say: "According to modern physics, however things can seemingly happen without cause. There are several things we observe that appear to have no cause. For example, "[w]hen an atom in an excited energy level drops to a lower level and emits a photon, a particle of light, we find no cause of that event. Similarly, no cause is evident in the decay of a radioactive nucleus."<br /Ari Goldberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17214565608168603343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5802793022423388420.post-51688290749310116312011-11-11T09:02:49.304-07:002011-11-11T09:02:49.304-07:00No problem. Most of the conversation between Steng...No problem. Most of the conversation between Stenger, Vilenkin, and Carrol that I have saved is in Stenger's new book, <i>The Fallacy of Fine-Tuning</i>. After the initial discussion between the above scientists I contacted Vilenkin asking what his opinion was about some arguments that use the second law of thermodynamics to argue against an eternal universe, which was what I sent you Arizona Atheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17377658912951142427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5802793022423388420.post-118337591346439492011-11-11T01:19:38.804-07:002011-11-11T01:19:38.804-07:00Actually, no. I contacted you because I listened ...Actually, no. I contacted you because I listened to the Craig v Millican debate in which Craig was quoting from Vilenkin's correspondence to Stenger about the G-B-V theorem. I was looking for the letter online to read it for myself, and was directed to your site. <br /><br />While I was hoping for the full letter, all I've been able to find are snippets. What piqued my interest and Jason Dullehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16840891072959191210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5802793022423388420.post-6727072429105729032011-11-10T18:13:03.083-07:002011-11-10T18:13:03.083-07:00You're welcome. Alright. I had a feeling that ...You're welcome. Alright. I had a feeling that was the case. :- ) I'm assuming you're looking to write a response, which is why you wanted my sources? If so, please point me to your response once it's done. Thanks.Arizona Atheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17377658912951142427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5802793022423388420.post-79264675279581994952011-11-10T17:15:55.096-07:002011-11-10T17:15:55.096-07:00I received it. Thank you.
And yes, I would be th...I received it. Thank you.<br /><br />And yes, I would be that Jason Dulle.Jason Dullehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16840891072959191210noreply@blogger.com