Friday, February 8, 2008

David Marshall Replies...Badly...Again

Edit - 5-30-10: I wanted to edit this post to include some comments in light of my second reading of Marshall's book and the more extensive 100 + page refutation I've since written and to put Marshall and I's messy past in perspective. These comments will be in italics. No other changes have been made to the original post. Other posts can be found here, here, and here.

Marshall finally responded to my last post at his blog. See my post David Marshall's Attempted Rebuttals.

Here is the screenshot of it:

After my repeated attempts to get him to give me evidence for his claims, and getting nothing back from Marshall but him dodging questions, personal attacks, and unsubstantiated claims, like when he makes the asinine statement that I get my "theology from Wikipedia", and other nonsense. Marshall seems, to me, to be a coward.

Here is my reply. His comments will be in bold and my replies will come after.

Well, I had a feeling you would bring up by past "blunders" just to discredit me. To that I say, so what? I made a few mistakes (only 4 I might add, on a 40 + page paper) which I corrected. That is a sign of honesty. You, however, have not admitted or corrected your mistakes. So what does that say about you? I'll leave you to think about that one.

I wasn't "playing dumb" with (2); your comment was ungrammatical, and it wasn't clear what you meant to say. In any case, I did not say what you (now, more clearly) claim I said.

Actually, no it wasn't "ungrammatical", and that's simply your biased opinion to begin with. That's no argument what so ever. So, you yourself clearly lied when you said that passage was not in your book. I didn't change your quote to the point that it was unrecognizable. I think you're just using that as an excuse to cover up your deception. I think anyone who compares both quotes can see that.

I believe this comment was in response to a quote by Marshall about jesus. There were several instances where Marshall would quibble over semantics and because I didn't word something just right, he'd claim I was misrepresenting his position. Because I do not remember what we were discussing I'll refrain from commenting.

On (6), you both contradict yourself and make excuses (again) for misrepresenting my position.

How in the world did I contradict myself? I made a reasonable judgement based on what was in your book. What else were you talking about? You sure aren't correcting me. Why is that? Perhaps because you know I'm right and you don't want to look foolish by admitting it?

Here, Marshall and I were discussing something he said about the bible and he claims I misread what he wrote, but I exposed his deceit here (it is the first lie that I listed). You can also see how he talked down to me, and this one of the earliest discussions I had with him.

On (7), you try to correct my understanding of faith, and that of Aquinas, Justin, Augustine, Locke, Lewis, Pope John Paul II, etc, by quoting a single Bible verse from Wikipedia!

That's an actual quote from the bible; I looked it up myself. Who cares where I get the quote from? It's still true and can be found in the bible.

Here is one example of Marshall's pathetic attitude. To put simply, I knew the quote I wanted to find from the bible but I simply wanted to copy and paste it instead of copy it by hand and Marshall gives me his immature attitude. Something I had to put up with a lot. He also ignored my reasons why I said what I said! I had tried to explain that the definition of faith had changed over time.

On (8), you admit your error, but then try to hide it by calling me a "hypocrit" (on unspecified grounds, but doubtless as shaky as all your other arguments in these forums.)

Actually, I readily admitted it - I don't see how you can claims I hid anything. You are a hypocrite. You claim that I didn't read your book, and yet you clearly didn't read Dawkins', because you claim that he doesn't want parents teaching kids about any religion because they're "evil", even when Dawkins himself states the exact opposite in his book!

I'm quoting you from page 185: "[Dawkins] ..thinks children have the right to be indoctrinated into thinking [religion is]...evil, no matter what their parents say."

Yet on page 327, in The god Delusion, Dawkins writes, "If, having been fairly and properly exposed to all the scientific evidence, they grow up and decide that the bible is literally true or that the movements of the planets rule their lives, that is their privilege. The important point is that it is their privilege to decide what they shall think, not their parents' privilege to impose it by force majeure."

Seems you didn't bother to read this paragraph, because you were too busy trying to attack Dawkins' character?

Here is once again where Marshall's smear/discrediting campaign is showcased. Here also is a very early post where I expose his errors about Dawkins' opinions that Marshall never admitted to, despite the overwhelming evidence. So, despite Marshall's continuous claims that I've never rebutted any arguments of his, this is obviously false.

On (9), the issue is not my understanding of your attempt to rebut the Trinity (why should I care about that, from a guy who gets his theology from Wikipedia, muddles centuries of thought, and can hardly write a coherent sentence in English?), it is your misrepresentation of what I said about the subject. Again, you don't deny your error, you just try to distract readers from it. You made two concrete claims here about what I said, both of them wrong. Those are the facts. The rest is just spin.

Yet even more personal attacks and I don't get my theology from wikipedia. Yet another unsubstantiated assumption on your part. Would you like to see all the books I have?

Actually the facts are that I did make some mistakes and I admitted and corrected them. You have made more mistakes then I have, and yet you don't either admit, nor correct them. Those are the facts. The rest is just spin.

Get over yourself, man. Your book is a poor attempt at distorting truth, and trying to convince yourself that there really is a god. Please just wake up and see reality, and be honest with yourself and others for a change.

For anyone who doesn't have blinders on, I think they can clearly see your deception and the fact that you constantly dodge questions. That apologetics training has really come in handy, huh? That's why I call it the art of because that's all your so called rebuttals are.

And don't use that condescending tone with me. I gave you plenty of opportunities to rebut me, but you didn't. I've had debates with people who are much more grammatically skilled then you, and who actually have skill in debating. You are simply someone who dodges questions. And you're telling me, I need to work at it more? That's just too funny.

You can come to my blog and attempt to refute my arguments...though judging from the pitiful attempts, and the fact that you dodge questions a lot, I don't see that happening. If you're so right, and I'm so wrong, why don't you set me straight? I've given you many opportunities but you avoid addressing my criticisms like the plague it seems. All you do is hurl insults and avoid directly answering my objections.

I don't really have much else to add. I was getting very tired of Marshall's attitude and obvious attempts at dodging questions and arguments, and of course his discrediting attempts. Here is also where I challenged him (just one instance of many) to go read my review (which he did eventually, but his response was less than satisfactory) and comment on it and the more extensive rebuttals that I already took so much time to write out here. I figured, why bother posting everything that I've written here on when it's so much simpler to post a link and allow people to copy and paste what they want to comment on. Despite my open invitation, I'm accused of avoiding discussion and allegedly never posting arguments - which is a complete lie. That really shows how out of touch with reality that David Marshall and his buddy J.R. Fraser were to accuse me of such things.

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